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Stuff happens. That's life. That's reality. That doesn't mean that God caused it or that Satan caused it. Sometimes stuff just happens.
So during a baptism -- during that prayer, during that holy ceremony where god is supposedly infusing the subject with the holy spirit -- god is not present.
Well, look. Sooner or later everyone is going to die in some way or another and there's no shortage of ways in which a person can die. For that reason you can't just take any of the biblical promises about being protected from evil or death as saying that you will never die. From a biblical perspective, it would seem to me that until God wants to take a person out of this life he will be protected from death.
As for the pastor who got electrocuted while performing a baptism . . . maybe God has a sense of humor. Or maybe the guy just made a bad choice by handling a live microphone while he was standing in water and it cost him his life. Maybe it was just his time to go.
Excuses, excuses, excuses.
Satan, were there such a being, would have been more competent.
Satan, were there such a being, would have been more competent.
Oh, go do your Buddhism crap. As I said to thrillobyte, God didn't necessarily have anything to do with the death of that pastor. How the hell is that making excuses?
Picture this: a pastor is trying to baptize a new member into Jesus' family. He's in the water, he grabs a mike and he is electrocuted. He's rushed to the hospital but he doesn't survive.
WACO, Texas (ABP) — Kyle Lake, 33-year-old pastor of the innovative University Baptist Church in Waco, Texas, was electrocuted and died Oct. 30 after he grabbed a microphone while in a baptistry full of water. According to eyewitness reports, Lake grabbed the microphone to adjust it while standing in the baptismal waters. He was shocked and collapsed. More than 800 people witnessed the event.
Here are some cases where Christianity, far from being good for you, is downright deadly for you. What kind of crazy mixed up world does God run here? If these people had ignored God they'd be alive today. But because they tried to please God they're dead today. Once again, is God completely innocent of bad stuff happening on His watch and it's all the devil's fault?
My money is on Christians saying "The devil did it." So Satan is stronger than God. That's a reasonable conclusion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte
"The Lord will keep you from all evil; he will keep your life." Psalm 121:7
"...nothing shall hurt you." Luke 10:19
"No evil shall be allowed to befall you" Psalm 91:10
If I hear you correctly, Michael you're saying that despite the promises the Bible makes to people about God protecting us from evil, the reality is that God doesn't protect us from evil; people die doing God's work. They're not afforded any protection at all.
It all just seems so random and arbitrary. What good are the Bible's promises?
Again, another worthless "Problem of Evil/Suffering" argument...to try to show The Abrahamic God to be "bad" and "wrong".
This argument ALWAYS fails.
See...if one is going to go by The Holy Book, and what it says, they get a full explanation: Proverbs 3:5-6
5 Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
6 In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.
BECAUSE:
Isaiah 55:8-9
8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
neither are your ways my ways,
declares the Lord.
9 As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways
and my thoughts than your thoughts.
And:
Galatians 5:22-23
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Ecclesiastes 9:11
I returned and saw under the sun that— The race is not to the swift, Nor the battle to the strong, Nor bread to the wise, Nor riches to men of understanding, Nor favor to men of skill; But time and chance happen to them all.
So, according to the source of the information you cite...any and all Problem of Evil/Suffering arguments are bogus...and should not be posed in the first place. It is all fully explained...in no uncertain terms.
We are just supposed to accept that God is superior to us in every way, do not go by what we think about anything, and understand that suffering is a good thing as well as being told that status does not get you privilege.
God Knows...You Don't.
God Can...you Can't.
Suffering is a good thing...right there with peace, joy, and love. And status does not necessarily get you any privilege.
<< Insults removed. >>
You need to get hip to that.
Last edited by mensaguy; 08-28-2022 at 04:50 AM..
Reason: Quit calling people "ignorant and worthless."
OMG, I get so sick of these types of questions. Is everyone God loves supposed to live forever? Don't you get that it's not death, it's graduation? Human beings can't presume to know or understand the plan of the creator of the entire universe. Just stop it.
I think you're missing the point of the conversation, at least as I am trying to present it: sure everybody is going to die some day. But there is nothing natural about a pastor trying to do God's work to bring people into God's kingdom and then out of the blue because of a freak accident suddenly the pastor's life is cut short. What if that person says, "If this is how God treats his children I don't want any part of this." And God loses a soul to the devil. Does God's actions make the slightest bit of sense to you? Sure, sure I know his ways are unfathomable and all that, but if this is how God takes care of his business it's no wonder people begin to believe God has nothing to do with it; it's all random bad luck. And so they drop out of Christianity.
I do actually - but I thought this was a serious topic
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Way
Well, why don't you ask God to do a rewrite? Not that God actually wrote the Bible in the first place.
So you have a sense of humor when it comes to people dying and you are sarcastic and condescending. Great and godly qualities lol. The very best of Christianity right here.
My point was that the bible, to me would seem more authentic if it toted narratives along the lines of what I wrote instead of the versus that trillobyte quoted which really don't convey authenticity or credibility. In any event, i'm on the fence about even believing in god. That said, my first few posts in this section has given me a warm Texas welcome. Thank you very much
It's ok. There are crusty Athiests in the Athiesm section and low blow joe's in the Religious one. I'm getting used to the nastiness in here
I do actually - but I thought this was a serious topic
So you have a sense of humor when it comes to people dying and you are sarcastic and condescending. Great and godly qualities lol. The very best of Christianity right here.
My point was that the bible, to me would seem more authentic if it toted narratives along the lines of what I wrote instead of the versus that the trillobyte quoted which really don't convey authenticity or credibility.
Well you said god didn't write the bible. That point resonates with me the most
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Way
Oh, go do your Buddhism crap. As I said to thrillobyte, God didn't necessarily have anything to do with the death of that pastor. How the hell is that making excuses?
I've read a quite a bit of Phet's posts and I don't think he is Buddhist. Athiest yes. He can clarify if he wishes though.
What I was trying to say is that, again, biblically speaking, until God wants to take you out of this life you are protected from death. But sooner or later we all must die.
Okay, as you said in another post none of this has to have anything to do with God. And here, we're all going to die so we're afforded God's protection until he decides we aren't.
Used to be people believed being a Christian afforded them some protection from evil because of the promises in the Bible. I guess as the reality of how the world really operates sets in more and more are realizing that the Bible makes promises to protect you from evil and then people aren't protected from evil. One can take a philosophical approach to this and simply say, "Live your life by God's laws and when it's your time your number's up. You aren't any more privileged in this world than a Muslim or a Jew or a Krishna or a Buddhist. All you have is a promise that you will get to heaven whenever you die."
Again, another worthless "Problem of Evil/Suffering" argument...to try to show The Abrahamic God to be "bad" and "wrong".
This argument ALWAYS fails.
See...if one is going to go by The Holy Book, and what it says, they get a full explanation: Proverbs 3:5-6
5 Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
6 In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.
BECAUSE:
Isaiah 55:8-9
8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
neither are your ways my ways,
declares the Lord.
9 As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways
and my thoughts than your thoughts.
And:
Galatians 5:22-23
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Ecclesiastes 9:11
I returned and saw under the sun that— The race is not to the swift, Nor the battle to the strong, Nor bread to the wise, Nor riches to men of understanding, Nor favor to men of skill; But time and chance happen to them all.
So, according to the source of the information you cite...any and all Problem of Evil/Suffering arguments are bogus...and should not be posed in the first place. It is all fully explained...in no uncertain terms.
We are just supposed to accept that God is superior to us in every way, do not go by what we think about anything, and understand that suffering is a good thing as well as being told that status does not get you privilege.
God Knows...You Don't.
God Can...you Can't.
Suffering is a good thing...right there with peace, joy, and love. And status does not necessarily get you any privilege.
<< Insults removed. >>
You need to get hip to that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fusion2
A sense of humor? He's dead. I think Thrillobyte made excellent points. On this earth anyway, those verses aren't really worth too much to most of us in real life.
Why wouldn't there be the following more relevant and timeless verse
Bad things happen to good people. This will be permited and the Lord will not intervene. I allow the Devil to do these things because you need to choose the right path on your own. Do good deeds and be a good person and regardless when or how you die, even if it is horrifically painful and unjust, you will join me in the eternal blissful, loving and benevolent Heaven of your dreams. To the perpetrators of evil deeds, you'll join my thorny adversary and it'll be hot.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fusion2
I do actually - but I thought this was a serious topic
So you have a sense of humor when it comes to people dying and you are sarcastic and condescending. Great and godly qualities lol. The very best of Christianity right here.
My point was that the bible, to me would seem more authentic if it toted narratives along the lines of what I wrote instead of the versus that trillobyte quoted which really don't convey authenticity or credibility. In any event, i'm on the fence about even believing in god. That said, my first few posts in this section has given me a warm Texas welcome. Thank you very much
It's ok. There are crusty Athiests in the Athiesm section and low blow joe's in the Religious one. I'm getting used to the nastiness in here
The Bible does fully explain it.
You have to read it all to get the whole message & explanation.
No literal interpretation can be successfully challenged...it fully covers itself.
This is really just another typical "Problem of Evil/Suffering" argument.
That argument fails every time...and The Bible fully explains it...if taken literally.
See above my quoted post above. ^^^^^
Last edited by mensaguy; 08-28-2022 at 04:55 AM..
Reason: Quoted post edited.
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Or maybe the guy just made a bad choice by handling a live microphone while he was standing in water and it cost him his life. Maybe it was just his time to go.
As I said to thrillobyte, God didn't necessarily have anything to do with the death of that pastor. How the hell is that making excuses? 
