Atheists and Skeptics Have the Truth. Christians Do NOT. (pagans, follower, crucifixion)

[Mink57]

Originally Posted by Northsouth

*Yawn* Good morning Mink. Are you sure you want to talk to me? Apparently, I'm a pig. How did PP know I snorted?

LOL! If I drank coffee, I'd be spitting it out of my nose right now! I may be Catholic, but I'm also a Gentile so...bring on the pork!

Exactly, I agree with that. I was "simply" (there's that annoying word again) stating that Jesus' teachings are not unique, it's just common sense and using the internal instinct to be good instead of ignoring that moral compass until morality no longer exists in the person.

O.k.

I talk about fundamentalism the most because that's what I know best. However, I have attended many, many different churches and denominations also. The idea behind Christianity is to be as close to perfect as one can be, right? And since when has that ever been attainable, for anyone? It falls short right out of the gate. I dismiss it AND all other religions, it's not just Christianity.

I don't think Christianity is telling us to be 'perfect' so much as it's telling us to be 'excellent'. After all, the 'leaders' in the Bible--Moses...Noah...Abraham...and others were far from perfect.

Wow, she must have really liked you for her to not want you to leave!

She was a 'witch'. Oh, and, that's spelled with a capital "B."

I see what you're getting at, it's not a matter of not "getting" it.....oh, I get it. I just realized I said get or getting 3 times in that sentence. I had the Christianity crutch for 40+ years. I was very unhappy and lived in fear of hell. I feared I was never going to measure up so off to hell I go. I was told how awful I was and how bad of a sinner I was, it makes me ill to remember those feelings inside. If I'm happy now being free from all that, why can't everyone be at peace with that? What works for the majority of the world doesn't work for me and a small minority of others.

How sad. Sad because the one thing that Christ stressed for us is how merciful God is.

I lived in fear of hell for a long time, too. Imagine...that you're going to hell because you "talked back" to your parent because you're telling the truth... The whole idea gets so convoluted...and really, REALLY screws people up!

I'm glad you are sharing your experiences, this is the kind of conversation I like to have. LOL "holiest of holies" - that is all I saw from one side of my family - I was the black sheep, even though the religious claimants were worse than me. At least I don't have a black heart and talk trash about everyone after attending church and eating them up to their face. I view churches as nothing but social clubs where the hypocrisy runs rampant and the sins abound, but it's ok - as long as the façade is there. It's true, actions speak louder than words.

Yes, I see that at my own church as well. A "social club" where others can go to church...and gossip about what "she" wore to church...or how another member isn't very "friendly." Don't these people read the Bible?

When I was homeless, I used to go to church every day. Got to know some of the people there. And some of them were not very...Christian. When I became "residentually sound", I STOPPED going to that church because of the people there. I prayed..."Lord, if you want me to go, I'll go. But something needs to be done about those." Within 2 months, ALL of those members left for various reasons. Was it *my* prayers? Was it others? I didn't care. To me, my prayer was answered.

LOL that's sounds so typical of Pentecostals, they assume that if you're at their church you believe like they do so ya better start learning baby talk. I promise you though, I have attended a Catholic church and I was sort of impressed and in awe of the rituals and the fact that it was a completely different type of Christianity. I may have been 8 years old but I remember it well. It opened my eyes a little even then I think, to see that there were other ways to worship. Btw, my other side of the family, the staunch Pentecostals......they really dislikse Catholics. Thought they were not Christians. Ironic huh?

LOL! No, not so ironic. There was a time when some people believed that Catholics have horns on their heads!

So, let me ask you...if you liked it so much at 8, why didn't you stick with it? Not saying you "should" have, but I'm just curious...

Oh come on, it was a joke! That's what this was for. Or I might have done this... You're one of the few on this board who admits they are not 100% certain of your faith. I think it's healthy to doubt and question things, especially when it comes to religion. It may strengthen your faith, or you may lose it completely, which works for some people. Especially those like me who found it torturous......mentally, physically and emotionally. If you're happy, I'm happy for you. I mean that.

LOL! I get that it wasn't meant literally. But like I said before, there are others who patrol these forums...

And I agree that it IS heathy to doubt. Heck, I doubt myself several times a day. Like that priest* said...

*Sadly, that priest was a "loaner" from another church. When I confessed to him, I had only met him that one time. He actually came to confession and was BLEEDING. He had taken a fall in his little apartment.

He passed away only a month later. I was grateful for having a chance to talk to him.

[thrillobyte]

Originally Posted by Northsouth

My responses in bold, sorry can't quote properly right now.

S'okay. You're right on.

[mordant]

Originally Posted by Northsouth

Apparently you have a problem with me. Either you edited it or the mods got you but fortunately Mordant saw it before it disappeared. I am curious though, since you're not a pig.......well you could be that Geico talking pig I guess. We never know who we are actually talking to. So I'd like to know why you, a newbie, think you know me to call me swine?

If YOU want to know the truth you know exactly where to look also. Inside yourself, in case maybe you don't know how to find the real truth. There is only one truth about a god...and that's that there isn't one.

I assume you're aware there's an actual Bible verse behind this "casting pearls" business -- in fact it is a saying of Jesus in Matthew 7:6.

Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast
ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them
under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

Jesus was teaching that gentiles and heathens are just bottom-feeding filthy animals, who can't appreciate the wonderfulness of godly wisdom.

When your fearless leader spouts bigoted stuff like that, the followers can hardly be blamed for thinking it's okay. But I blame them anyway on grounds of basic human decency and the overarching principle the one does not dehumanize one's opponents. That is always the step just before they start abusing you in other ways.

[Northsouth]

Originally Posted by mordant

I assume you're aware there's an actual Bible verse behind this "casting pearls" business -- in fact it is a saying of Jesus in Matthew 7:6.

Jesus was teaching that gentiles and heathens are just bottom-feeding filthy animals, who can't appreciate the wonderfulness of godly wisdom.

When your fearless leader spouts bigoted stuff like that, the followers can hardly be blamed for thinking it's okay. But I blame them anyway on grounds of basic human decency and the overarching principle the one does not dehumanize one's opponents. That is always the step just before they start abusing you in other ways.

Yes I'm aware, PM was using it as an insult, a no-no as far as using the scripture negatively and out of context TO insult.

Absolutely! The swinging in and out simply to insult with scripture, of all things, is lower than low and if I were that person's fearless leader they would be chastised and put in their place. Unfortunately though, they would probably just receive a pat on the back. I bet there are a lot of prayers going to nowhere about this "swine". Eh, my family has been praying for me for years.......without any results.

[Northsouth]

Originally Posted by Mink57

LOL! If I drank coffee, I'd be spitting it out of my nose right now! I may be Catholic, but I'm also a Gentile so...bring on the pork!


O.k.


I don't think Christianity is telling us to be 'perfect' so much as it's telling us to be 'excellent'. After all, the 'leaders' in the Bible--Moses...Noah...Abraham...and others were far from perfect.


She was a 'witch'. Oh, and, that's spelled with a capital "B."


How sad. Sad because the one thing that Christ stressed for us is how merciful God is.

I lived in fear of hell for a long time, too. Imagine...that you're going to hell because you "talked back" to your parent because you're telling the truth... The whole idea gets so convoluted...and really, REALLY screws people up!


Yes, I see that at my own church as well. A "social club" where others can go to church...and gossip about what "she" wore to church...or how another member isn't very "friendly." Don't these people read the Bible?

When I was homeless, I used to go to church every day. Got to know some of the people there. And some of them were not very...Christian. When I became "residentually sound", I STOPPED going to that church because of the people there. I prayed..."Lord, if you want me to go, I'll go. But something needs to be done about those." Within 2 months, ALL of those members left for various reasons. Was it *my* prayers? Was it others? I didn't care. To me, my prayer was answered.


LOL! No, not so ironic. There was a time when some people believed that Catholics have horns on their heads!

So, let me ask you...if you liked it so much at 8, why didn't you stick with it? Not saying you "should" have, but I'm just curious...


LOL! I get that it wasn't meant literally. But like I said before, there are others who patrol these forums...

And I agree that it IS heathy to doubt. Heck, I doubt myself several times a day. Like that priest* said...

*Sadly, that priest was a "loaner" from another church. When I confessed to him, I had only met him that one time. He actually came to confession and was BLEEDING. He had taken a fall in his little apartment.

He passed away only a month later. I was grateful for having a chance to talk to him.

I'm sorry Mink I'll get back with you in a few hours, gotta run but I will respond. It may take me til midnight to type it on a tablet but I will respond.

[Northsouth]

Originally Posted by Mink57

LOL! If I drank coffee, I'd be spitting it out of my nose right now! I may be Catholic, but I'm also a Gentile so...bring on the pork!

Oh you should drink coffee, nothing like snout snorting early in the am.

I don't think Christianity is telling us to be 'perfect' so much as it's telling us to be 'excellent'. After all, the 'leaders' in the Bible--Moses...Noah...Abraham...and others were far from perfect.

Ok, I'll accept that. And let's not forget about Lot, what a wanker he was.

She was a 'witch'. Oh, and, that's spelled with a capital "B."

Wow, I can relate. My 3rd grade teacher hated me I think, she was so mean to me. Itch missing a B.

How sad. Sad because the one thing that Christ stressed for us is how merciful God is.

Wait a minute.....I had to go back and look at whatever it was we were talking about here. Hold on..ok, nah it's not sad really because I've dealt with all of it. What's sad is that my life is more than half over and it took so long to come to my realization that it was all a lie and I'm ok with it because I learned how to be a better person, mostly from my maternal side of the family, they walked the walk. They meant well, not any harm even though that's what happened. They were duped. It was a cult they were involved in and they didn't realize that.

I lived in fear of hell for a long time, too. Imagine...that you're going to hell because you "talked back" to your parent because you're telling the truth... The whole idea gets so convoluted...and really, REALLY screws people up!

Yes it does screw people up but it's up to the person to get beyond it. Can't blame someone else forever, although some people go to their graves doing just that. Now that's sad.

Yes, I see that at my own church as well. A "social club" where others can go to church...and gossip about what "she" wore to church...or how another member isn't very "friendly." Don't these people read the Bible?

Oh boy I'm not sure where you live but it's true what they say about the South, there's a church on every corner. And they all dislike each other and their teachings. It's mostly Southern Baptists that cause all the separation and ill feelings. Talk about hypocrites. And no, they don't have a clue what the bible says.

When I was homeless, I used to go to church every day. Got to know some of the people there. And some of them were not very...Christian. When I became "residentually sound", I STOPPED going to that church because of the people there. I prayed..."Lord, if you want me to go, I'll go. But something needs to be done about those." Within 2 months, ALL of those members left for various reasons. Was it *my* prayers? Was it others? I didn't care. To me, my prayer was answere

Oh my I'm sorry to hear that you were ever homeless I do hope things are better now. I look at those kind of coincidences as nothing more than that, coincidences. Now that's not to say that strange and wildly unexplainable things that have happened to me that I can't explain, there are a few things. I don't understand why we can't all agree on that fact, that no one has all the answers?

LOL! No, not so ironic. There was a time when some people believed that Catholics have horns on their heads!

That's what I was basically taught. The really ironic thing with my Mom's side is that her brother rebelled BIG TIME against the Pentecostal Christianity and converted to Catholicism....can you imagine the disappointment my Grandparents felt? It was horrible, there was a rift and it never got resolved.

So, let me ask you...if you liked it so much at 8, why didn't you stick with it? Not saying you "should" have, but I'm just curious...

I'm like a magpie, I like shiny objects. (That's a myth but that's another story) There was a whole lot of gold, shiny objects that were used and I guess that's why I remember it so well. It's not a matter of sticking with it, it was a matter of being released from the wrong ideas and interpretations, and ultimately it's undoing as far as I'm concerned. At least I have finally allowed myself to be free from it.

LOL! I get that it wasn't meant literally. But like I said before, there are others who patrol these forums...

I get that and I say it all the time also. People are watching and reading, even the old stuff. I've gotten reps from really old posts before.

And I agree that it IS heathy to doubt. Heck, I doubt myself several times a day. Like that priest* said...
*Sadly, that priest was a "loaner" from another church. When I confessed to him, I had only met him that one time. He actually came to confession and was BLEEDING. He had taken a fall in his little apartment.
He passed away only a month later. I was grateful for having a chance to talk to him.

Don't you just love those kinds of people? They leave an indelible mark on your psyche and you carry them with you throughout your life.

[Mink57]

Originally Posted by Northsouth

Oh you should drink coffee, nothing like snout snorting early in the am.

Ok, I'll accept that. And let's not forget about Lot, what a wanker he was.

LOL! I don't have Lot figured out quite yet, to my own personal satisfaction. I mean, the 10 Commandments (and the rest of God's statutes) weren't in play at that time. And while local laws and customs were in effect, did those laws address any of the 'wrongdoing' in Lot's story? Maybe that's the point of the story. TODAY we can look at Lot as a horrible father for offering up his betrothed daughters to the mob. But back then, would we have thought of it as so 'wrong'? After all, Lot was the head of his household. He could pretty do with his daughters anything he wished. The daughters may not have liked it, but if there was no law against it, what recourse would they have had?

Wow, I can relate. My 3rd grade teacher hated me I think, she was so mean to me. Itch missing a B.

Wow! I had one of those, too! In 3rd grade, no less! She was a nun, with a reputation for being strict. I didn't get why she had it in for me. I did well in school, but for some reason, she hated my penmanship. At the end of each quarter, she would give out new fountain pens to the kids whose handwriting improved during the quarter. I got mine on the last day of school...and she made sure to let me know that she did NOT want to give it to me. Meanwhile, I moved away during the summer. Went to a new school. The first day of school, the teacher had us sign our names on a sheet of paper. She praised my handwriting to the class, saying, "This is the way handwriting is supposed to look!" I was confused. I mean, it's not like my handwriting changed during the summer. Never could figure that one out.

Wait a minute.....I had to go back and look at whatever it was we were talking about here. Hold on..ok, nah it's not sad really because I've dealt with all of it. What's sad is that my life is more than half over and it took so long to come to my realization that it was all a lie and I'm ok with it because I learned how to be a better person, mostly from my maternal side of the family, they walked the walk. They meant well, not any harm even though that's what happened. They were duped. It was a cult they were involved in and they didn't realize that.

Unfortunately, some denominations go too far.

Yes it does screw people up but it's up to the person to get beyond it. Can't blame someone else forever, although some people go to their graves doing just that. Now that's sad.

Agreed.

Oh boy I'm not sure where you live but it's true what they say about the South, there's a church on every corner. And they all dislike each other and their teachings. It's mostly Southern Baptists that cause all the separation and ill feelings. Talk about hypocrites. And no, they don't have a clue what the bible says.

I'm in Las Vegas now, and the church I go to is about 80% Hispanic. So, there's a heavy cultural aspect to church-going for me. It's also very clique-ish, so I tend to shy away from any of their social events. I mean, I went a few times, but...I dunno. Ever walk into a room before, and everyone just stops talking? Watching you? Pointing? Whispering (in Spanish) while giving you the 'side-eye'? Yeah, not very comfortable.

Oh my I'm sorry to hear that you were ever homeless I do hope things are better now. I look at those kind of coincidences as nothing more than that, coincidences. Now that's not to say that strange and wildly unexplainable things that have happened to me that I can't explain, there are a few things. I don't understand why we can't all agree on that fact, that no one has all the answers?

Things are much better now, thank you.

I could see coincidences happening once in a while. But when they happen over and over again...
I dunno. I've had too many of them to believe that everything is so...random.

I (believe) that I got this apartment through prayer. I put certain 'conditions' on what I wanted: A one-bedroom, on a major bus route, within walking distance to my church. I had looked at this apartment building before, and they didn't have anything available. The apartment manager told me that one-bedrooms are "far and few between." After praying for a few weeks, I got this 'urge' to go back to the same complex. At that point, I was ready to settle for a studio apartment. At first, the apartment manager told me that nothing was available (no studios). I was just about the leave when he said, "Wait a minute...weren't you looking for a one-bedroom? I have one that just came available. It's not even ready to show yet, but since you're here..." Oh, joy of JOYS! We walked to the apartment. He opened the door, and before I even stepped inside I said, "I'll take it!" There are 4 apartments on this floor...and I'm the only one with a balcony. It was recently remodled, so I'm the only apartment--in a complex with over 300 apartments--that has a double kitchen sink. I'm on a major bus line, and the bus stop is right downstairs. My church is a four minute walk. PLUS, it's about $150 a month cheaper than a studio. There's more aspects about it that I like, but...

Coincidence?

To make a long story...even longer ...I've never had "good luck." I used to tell people that if it wasn't for bad luck, I wouldn't have any luck at all. But it seems that once I started praying, my "luck" changed. Now, when I started praying, I wasn't consistent. So the "luck" I experienced wasn't consistent. But once I started praying again, things changed for the better. It's almost like God is saying to me, "Mink, you nitwit! Don't you get by now that it's ME you should depend on, and not "luck"?"

That's what I was basically taught. The really ironic thing with my Mom's side is that her brother rebelled BIG TIME against the Pentecostal Christianity and converted to Catholicism....can you imagine the disappointment my Grandparents felt? It was horrible, there was a rift and it never got resolved.

I could just imagine!

I'm like a magpie, I like shiny objects. (That's a myth but that's another story) There was a whole lot of gold, shiny objects that were used and I guess that's why I remember it so well. It's not a matter of sticking with it, it was a matter of being released from the wrong ideas and interpretations, and ultimately it's undoing as far as I'm concerned. At least I have finally allowed myself to be free from it.

A magpie...

Oh, the things that make us go 'Hmmm ' *You* feel a sense of relief from it. Meanwhile, *I* feel a sense of relief with it!

I get that and I say it all the time also. People are watching and reading, even the old stuff. I've gotten reps from really old posts before.

Don't you just love those kinds of people? They leave an indelible mark on your psyche and you carry them with you throughout your life.

I agree, but I come across them so infrequently in life.

Thanks for taking the time to respond, NS. I really enjoy your posts!

[mordant]

Originally Posted by Mink57

And I agree that it IS heathy to doubt. Heck, I doubt myself several times a day.

Someone somewhere once said words to the effect, "The problem with the world is that the wise doubt themselves, but fools are cocksure."

[mordant]

Originally Posted by Mink57

Wow! I had one of those, too! In 3rd grade, no less! She was a nun, with a reputation for being strict. I didn't get why she had it in for me. I did well in school, but for some reason, she hated my penmanship. At the end of each quarter, she would give out new fountain pens to the kids whose handwriting improved during the quarter. I got mine on the last day of school...and she made sure to let me know that she did NOT want to give it to me. Meanwhile, I moved away during the summer. Went to a new school. The first day of school, the teacher had us sign our names on a sheet of paper. She praised my handwriting to the class, saying, "This is the way handwriting is supposed to look!" I was confused. I mean, it's not like my handwriting changed during the summer. Never could figure that one out.

LOL! What is it with 3rd grade teachers? I had one like yours, and she didn't even have the excuse of being a nun ;-)

This teacher was just mad at the world and I don't think she had it in solely for me but one day my pencil rolled off my desk, I bent over to pick it up and WHAM she brought a stack of heavy books down on my noggin.

I went home in a rage and declared I was never going to school again.

My mother, bless her -- and mind you she was not the world's most assertive person by any means -- extracted the story from me and the next day marched into the principal's office demanding this teacher's head on a platter -- her boy had been curious and excited and happy to go to school and was now headed in the other direction. Fortunately she was not the first to do so, and within a week the teacher was gone. The problem was that she was then replaced by a sub who, near as I can tell, taught us very little the rest of the school year apart from how to built papier-mache volcanoes. I had been skipped over 2nd grade from 1st into 3rd and between that and the difficulties in 3rd grade, it was probably 6th grade before I fully recovered academically or socially.

My 3rd grade teacher, Mrs Hicks, was made up for by my 4th grade teacher, Mrs Best, and their names were both symbolic and appropriate. Mrs Best took me under wing and helped me with the areas I was struggling with and reassured me that not all teachers are crazy. She put me on the path to recovery but like I said between how 3rd grade effected me and the indifferent quality of my 5th grade teacher it took me some time to fully find my footing again.

[Northsouth]

Originally Posted by Mink57

LOL! I don't have Lot figured out quite yet, to my own personal satisfaction. I mean, the 10 Commandments (and the rest of God's statutes) weren't in play at that time. And while local laws and customs were in effect, did those laws address any of the 'wrongdoing' in Lot's story? Maybe that's the point of the story. TODAY we can look at Lot as a horrible father for offering up his betrothed daughters to the mob. But back then, would we have thought of it as so 'wrong'? After all, Lot was the head of his household. He could pretty do with his daughters anything he wished. The daughters may not have liked it, but if there was no law against it, what recourse would they have had?

I always had a disgust for Lot, whether or not the story is true. How could someone be so callous, incestuous and just wrong on so many levels? I think that we are born with instinctual moral compasses, no need for the 10 commandments, although they are fine rules to live by I just don't believe the bible to be true or accurate. Yes, it was a very long time ago and we may not understand the ways of people back then but I can't agree that no knowledge of a god meant Lot couldn't have behaved properly. It's barbaric behavior and as a woman I really hated that story. I always thought the author must be a little twisted and misogynistic. I know what recourse I would have had.

Wow! I had one of those, too! In 3rd grade, no less! She was a nun, with a reputation for being strict. I didn't get why she had it in for me. I did well in school, but for some reason, she hated my penmanship. At the end of each quarter, she would give out new fountain pens to the kids whose handwriting improved during the quarter. I got mine on the last day of school...and she made sure to let me know that she did NOT want to give it to me. Meanwhile, I moved away during the summer. Went to a new school. The first day of school, the teacher had us sign our names on a sheet of paper. She praised my handwriting to the class, saying, "This is the way handwriting is supposed to look!" I was confused. I mean, it's not like my handwriting changed during the summer. Never could figure that one out.

Seems you and I and Mordant have our 3rd grade teachers in common....must be hard though dealing with that many kids at one time. I do believe that some of them pick on certain students for whatever reason. They see weakness in you maybe, or they did me because I was at a new school and I had no friends and was horribly shy. I think a lot of them see that and demand excellence and participation, which I was terrified of. Honestly, I don't really understand it either but I never forgot the humiliation.

I'm in Las Vegas now, and the church I go to is about 80% Hispanic. So, there's a heavy cultural aspect to church-going for me. It's also very clique-ish, so I tend to shy away from any of their social events. I mean, I went a few times, but...I dunno. Ever walk into a room before, and everyone just stops talking? Watching you? Pointing? Whispering (in Spanish) while giving you the 'side-eye'? Yeah, not very comfortable.

Las Vegas! Do you gamble? Interesting that you feel uncomfortable in your church, that's not good. Yes, I have walked into a room full of people and everyone stopped talking, it's mortifying. Haha the "side-eye", that describes it pretty well.

I could see coincidences happening once in a while. But when they happen over and over again...
I dunno. I've had too many of them to believe that everything is so...random

I can understand that, I've had narrow misses from certain death, a Cross made of clouds in the sky over where I used to work that I hated and that very day I quit because I thought better things were are the horizon. You know, stuff like that that really had me believing there was a god. Ultimately, I knew I was reading things as signs and interpreting dreams to mean the end times were coming soon, and I needed to face the reality that it has been really dumb luck and just me being a little delusional. Most everything is explainable, the things that are not will eventually be proven or disproven by science and if not, then we have to admit we don't always have an answer....yet.

I (believe) that I got this apartment through prayer. I put certain 'conditions' on what I wanted: A one-bedroom, on a major bus route, within walking distance to my church. I had looked at this apartment building before, and they didn't have anything available. The apartment manager told me that one-bedrooms are "far and few between." After praying for a few weeks, I got this 'urge' to go back to the same complex. At that point, I was ready to settle for a studio apartment. At first, the apartment manager told me that nothing was available (no studios). I was just about the leave when he said, "Wait a minute...weren't you looking for a one-bedroom? I have one that just came available. It's not even ready to show yet, but since you're here..." Oh, joy of JOYS! We walked to the apartment. He opened the door, and before I even stepped inside I said, "I'll take it!" There are 4 apartments on this floor...and I'm the only one with a balcony. It was recently remodled, so I'm the only apartment--in a complex with over 300 apartments--that has a double kitchen sink. I'm on a major bus line, and the bus stop is right downstairs. My church is a four minute walk. PLUS, it's about $150 a month cheaper than a studio. There's more aspects about it that I like, but...

That's great! Sounds like you got a really good deal. I know, it's things like that when you think, "this must be a sign from god" because it seems too good and random to just be a coincidence. But sadly, that's all it is. IMO, of course.

To make a long story...even longer ...I've never had "good luck." I used to tell people that if it wasn't for bad luck, I wouldn't have any luck at all. But it seems that once I started praying, my "luck" changed. Now, when I started praying, I wasn't consistent. So the "luck" I experienced wasn't consistent. But once I started praying again, things changed for the better. It's almost like God is saying to me, "Mink, you nitwit! Don't you get by now that it's ME you should depend on, and not "luck"?"

I used to say that too, but it turns out it was my fault(imagine that)that all these bad things were happening to me. I put myself in the wrong places, doing the wrong things with the wrong people so anything "bad" that happened to me was mostly my fault. However, random bad things happen for no apparent reason sometimes and there is no explanation. Then there are good things that happen for no apparent reason either so it kind of evens itself out, unless something unthinkable happens that makes you mad at god. I get accused by Christians all the time that I'm just being stubborn and that I really still believe. Couldn't be further from the truth. It is unfathomable to them that I don't believe and I don't give credit to or get mad at a god that I don't even think exists. Funny how people think they know you and what you're thinking or feeling.

oh, the things that make us go 'Hmmm ' *You* feel a sense of relief from it. Meanwhile, *I* feel a sense of relief with it!

It is odd, especially since I've been on both sides of the aisle and quite fanatically as a Christian. I'm glad that it works for you and that you are in a stable situation now, that means the world because I've been there.

Thanks for taking the time to respond, NS. I really enjoy your posts!

Anytime, I'm all about a non-confrontational exchange of ideas and thoughts. I've done all the proselytizing(when I was Christian but I've been accused of proselytizing as an atheist)I'm ever going to do. Quoting scripture and arguing when no one is going to change their minds is pointless and circular. I'm off again, you're the only one I've been responding to the last couple of days, I'm covered up with work. Don't you feel special? Thanks Mink, have a great day.