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No, people were buried long before there were Abrahamic faiths, and they were buried long before Christianity came to their neck of the woods.
In archeology, there is a well-known burial of a Neanderthal in Shanidar Cave in Iraq that took place 60,000 years ago, notable because there are fossilized pollen grains alongside the body. In other words, the person was buried with flowers. The pollen could be identified as coming from plants that are still in use today in the area for medicinal purposes.
Then there are all the Viking burials, sometimes in their ships and identifiable by the mounds, such as have been excavated at Sutton Hoo in England. Some Native Americans were buried in the ground long before Europeans and their Abrahamic religion arrived on this side of the planet.
It seems that all over the world, disposing of dead bodies by putting them in the ground was a common-sense practice.
Abraham’s God is also the God of Adam. Wasn’t Abel the first human that was buried?
Abraham’s God is also the God of Adam. Wasn’t Abel the first human that was buried?
Whether or not someone in a legend was said to be buried doesn't establish anything.
Apart from all the religious aspects, dead bodies decay and so you really don't have many choices. Take it far away from your abode and let the animals and elements deal with it; bury it; burn it. Considering the technology of pre-industrial peoples, I can't think of any other options. Option #1 isn't very nice if you revere and respect the person and want in some sense to be able to be close to them after death -- particular in the pre-agricultural era when animism and ancestor worship were dominant ideas.
So I would imagine burial has dominated body disposal for most of human history, with some alternative customs connected with burning the body developing here and there.
Abraham’s God is also the God of Adam. Wasn’t Abel the first human that was buried?
Was Adam a Neaderthal? Or I guess yoysaid humans so did humans borrow the idea of burial from their existing close relative?: Or maybe Adam was a Homo naledi with a tiny brain or got the idea of burryibg the dead from an ancient ancestor?
Or maybe Afam was Haida, Blackfoot or Australian aborigine if we believed their creation myth rather than the Abrahamic creation myth?
If you're referring to my brother, he was buried in his favorite sweatshirt and a pair of jeans, at his request. He rarely wore a suit, as he worked as an electrician all his life and was a casual kind of guy.
Not quite the secular you were thinking of but it worked for him. Not that we saw him. He insisted that the casket be kept closed. Didn't want people staring at his dead body.
My wife and I recently paid a visit to my sister and brother-in-law, partly to be a part of a celebration of life that was held not far from where they live. (They live in SoCal. We live in NorCal). Your comment reminds me of a conversation we had over dinner about what we want done by our survivors when we die. Occurs to me this might be a good question or topic for another thread. What, where and why?
To a person, we all came down wanting cremation, but questions remain as to where we want our ashes spread. Something I'm still pondering but want to pin down sooner rather than later.
This preacher is actually pretty bright, but an example of wasted intelligence. Intelligence is not wisdom or empathy. I liken it to the clock speed of a computer. If the software running is garbage then you just do crap faster, it's not really helpful.
Shew I know all about wasted intelligence and brilliancy that led to madness, two people. It is really heartbreaking to watch and sometimes I feel like I'm next lol. Yeah it's like the people who do the fastest job always get the praise and the ones who are the actual brilliant people are the ones behind the scenes who have to clean up Speed Racer's mess.
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Actually, the GIGO principle (Garbage In, Garbage Out) also applies here because if your ideology is founded on fundamental errors then everything past that point is corrupted, and being smart or even compassionate isn't much help unless it eventually causes you to see the abstraction leaking and start to question it. But this guy's entire ego is wrapped up in the right(eous)ness of his life's work, so I very much doubt that is going to happen.
Haha a conversation that I had tonight I found myself saying "wax on, wax off" to describe something else, your GIGO reminded me of it. Yeah, you're correct in that sometimes being smart /compassionate/happy/funny/sarcastic is pointless if what you are trying to sell is snake oil. Apparently a lot of people need snake oil.
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Grandpa was indeed pretty cool. He lived to be 102. Like all centenarians I have known, he was very laid back and not much perturbed him. On the occasion of his 100th birthday party though he did say to my wife, "Isn't there some pill I can take or something? Being this old is not what it's cracked up to be, kid. Everyone I've known or loved is dead. The food in this place is terrible. My roommate babbles day and night. Don't live to be 100, okay?"
Wow, I love Grandpa! I appreciate the elderly (we are not elderly) and anyone who lives to 102 is alright by me. And you're right, they are usually laid back kind of people whose tickers keep ticking a lot longer than those of us who are anxious and a real nervous wreck sometimes. Not me of course.
LOL that's really hilarious what he said and unfortunately true. It must be very lonely when you get that old. Reminds me of the movie the Green Mile. He talked about how awful it was to watch his loved ones pass away, even his son. I imagine Grandpa experienced the same.
My wife and I recently paid a visit to my sister and brother-in-law, partly to be a part of a celebration of life that was held not far from where they live. (They live in SoCal. We live in NorCal). Your comment reminds me of a conversation we had over dinner about what we want done by our survivors when we die. Occurs to me this might be a good question or topic for another thread. What, where and why?
To a person, we all came down wanting cremation, but questions remain as to where we want our ashes spread. Something I'm still pondering but want to pin down sooner rather than later.
You?
I know you were talking to MQ but just indulge me. I don't get to post much so I'm responding to everything lol. I also want to be cremated, mainly because no one would come to my funeral so it would be a waste of money. J/K I do want to be cremated and I kind of demanded it in my will. More than likely, my wishes will not be honored if my Mother is still alive. Otherwise, I believe they will be honored.
Don't you love it when someone tells you "oh, you don't want that"......how the heck do they know what I want or don't want? Cremation and a celebration of life are perfect for me. I stated in my will that I want my ashes to be spread either the mountains in a certain place not far away or at the beach where I was born. I gave them options so dang, I hope they get it right.
My wife and I recently paid a visit to my sister and brother-in-law, partly to be a part of a celebration of life that was held not far from where they live. (They live in SoCal. We live in NorCal). Your comment reminds me of a conversation we had over dinner about what we want done by our survivors when we die. Occurs to me this might be a good question or topic for another thread. What, where and why?
To a person, we all came down wanting cremation, but questions remain as to where we want our ashes spread. Something I'm still pondering but want to pin down sooner rather than later.
You?
I had read up on the mechanics of cremation. The body is burned at high temperatures for about an hour, then the remains, pretty much bone, is crushed into bits.
I had a conversation about this at dinner one night when my mother mentioned the six double graves she and my father had purchased in 1953. At that time, only Dad was there. Plenty of room for the rest of us. I relayed what I read and said that was my preference. That was the evening of September 10, 2001.
My bother later told me that the next day, as One WTC collapsed, my mother said, "She's being burned and crushed just like she said.,"
Well, I wasn't, obviously. But my thoughts have evolved to wanting my ashes planted with a new tree, to feed its roots.
I had read up on the mechanics of cremation. The body is burned at high temperatures for about an hour, then the remains, pretty much bone, is crushed into bits.
That last part isn't widely understood. It's assumed the fire is so intense that everything is reduced to ash by it. I'm guessing the bones are pretty brittle by then and not hard to crush, but it is a brutal thing to imagine just the same.
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Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801
... my thoughts have evolved to wanting my ashes planted with a new tree, to feed its roots.
Another option is more of a natural burial without embalming or a casket. I wouldn't mind that myself -- there's such a cemetery not far from me -- but it does cost quite a bit more and seems more to demand some kind of ceremonial closure that is expensive in its own right. I will probably stick with cremation since there is likely to be a bare minimum of people who would even want a ceremony, and could probably do without.
My late / prior wife's ashes went to several places: (1) beneath an ironwood tree in our front yard; (2) beneath another ironwood tree in the public area across the street, on the theory that future owners of the house might uproot the tree in the yard; (2) 2,000 miles away in the meadow where she used to ride her horse as a child. That last allotment of her ashes I gave over to the choices of her extended family, and I think they made a good choice. In fact I offered to buy a marker so her ashes could be interred in a local cemetery if they wanted a place to visit. But they said they understood her wishes to be scattered and even though it was a little challenging to their personal custom and practice they decided to roll with it.
That last part isn't widely understood. It's assumed the fire is so intense that everything is reduced to ash by it. I'm guessing the bones are pretty brittle by then and not hard to crush, but it is a brutal thing to imagine just the same.
Another option is more of a natural burial without embalming or a casket. I wouldn't mind that myself -- there's such a cemetery not far from me -- but it does cost quite a bit more and seems more to demand some kind of ceremonial closure that is expensive in its own right. I will probably stick with cremation since there is likely to be a bare minimum of people who would even want a ceremony, and could probably do without.
My late / prior wife's ashes went to several places: (1) beneath an ironwood tree in our front yard; (2) beneath another ironwood tree in the public area across the street, on the theory that future owners of the house might uproot the tree in the yard; (2) 2,000 miles away in the meadow where she used to ride her horse as a child. That last allotment of her ashes I gave over to the choices of her extended family, and I think they made a good choice. In fact I offered to buy a marker so her ashes could be interred in a local cemetery if they wanted a place to visit. But they said they understood her wishes to be scattered and even though it was a little challenging to their personal custom and practice they decided to roll with it.
Right now for me what rises above the other options is to have my ashes spread at a spot one block from home on a cliff that slopes down to the sea. I like to sit there sometimes and just watch the waves wash over the edge. I like that idea, because it's a spot anyone can access, so if anyone wanted to visit that spot afterward, it would be easy to do.
I've also thought about choosing multiple spots, and I like the idea of leaving it to others to decide what to do with at least some of the ashes. Reminds me of reading about how Jerry Garcia's people spread his ashes off a boat just under the Golden Gate Bridge. Apparently the winds were strong and the ashes got blown back onto the boat, causing a few there to think, "isn't that just like Jerry wanting to have a little fun with us."
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but it worked for him. Not that we saw him. He insisted that the casket be kept closed. Didn't want people staring at his dead body.
Yeah it's like the people who do the fastest job always get the praise and the ones who are the actual brilliant people are the ones behind the scenes who have to clean up Speed Racer's mess.
