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Old 10-26-2022, 12:18 PM
 
Location: Somewhere out there.
10,489 posts, read 6,100,692 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LearnMe View Post
When we are young enough and still developing our beliefs along these lines, I think someone can be talked into what to believe and/or not believe, but then we get older and no doubt these beliefs get ingrained to the point of "nuff said." The cake is baked...

Regardless what the article says, there is clear evidence that religion can and does help people not only feel better in general but also helps them through difficult times. Again I've started threads and there have been others about this, and for the most part again it simply boils down to Psychology 101. A little different from medicine, but more in line with therapy that CB referenced.

What remains unclear to me is how the negative impacts of religion on people affect people on balance. We've all read the stories of people who have been negatively impacted by religion one way or another, and although I suspect the positive benefits outweigh the negatives in terms of numbers of people who have experienced either or both at a personal level, I'm not sure to what extent the positives outweigh the negatives on a macro level. Especially if violence due to conflicting and/or competing religions is included in the mix.

Clearly the numbers seem to demonstrate that religion works for a great many people one way or another, even discounting those who are religious because of fear or undue influence or whatever. This is why if the issue is one's well being, I'm reluctant to cause any doubt in anyone's faith even if creating doubt is possible. If on the other hand the focus is on true cause/effect and what is actually going on around us, as in whether there is actually a god or not, then I can't help but make the case for being an atheist.

Back to the topic of this thread, I don't think anyone should fear that being an atheist is any less healthy a way of thinking or with fewer health benefits than to be religious. Hasn't been for me anyway...



To be honest, the only people I see trying to talk other people out of what they believe are other religious people. I'm especially thinking of religious cults. And there's usually a monetary factor involved. These megachurches drawing people in for example. Or Scientology.


Atheists have no such vested interest. From what I see atheists are largely defending themselves against the nonsense people think about them.
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Old 10-26-2022, 12:35 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruithne View Post
To be honest, the only people I see trying to talk other people out of what they believe are other religious people. I'm especially thinking of religious cults. And there's usually a monetary factor involved. These megachurches drawing people in for example. Or Scientology.


Atheists have no such vested interest. From what I see atheists are largely defending themselves against the nonsense people think about them.
LOL .

That is not how it seems to me at all. I don't visit the religious forums much and I have also mostly stopped perusing the Atheist forum. But just seeing the vitriol from atheists and their determined opposition and to anything that even faintly suggests spirituality and belief on this R&S general forum is quite disturbing. There really is no reason for them to stray outside the atheist forum and discuss atheism, and yet here they are everyday arguing endlessly about belief. They strongly believe there are readers out there who may be helped by this discourse and can be helped by disabusing them of belief.

We must not be reading the same posts obviously.

In any case why do they care so much about what people think of them? Is it possible to climb into other people's heads and know what they think and then keep them from thinking that? That itself seems a negative psychological functioning not conducive to well-being.


I want to add I am not dictating what and where atheists should post, they have every right to post whatever and wherever this site allows them to do so. Of course.
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Old 10-26-2022, 12:42 PM
 
Location: Somewhere out there.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cb2008 View Post
Thank you for reading the entire article and reporting back to us. The abstract seems suffice to me. I would have only wondered about the methodology, and apparently you did not have any problem other than the numbers of atheists as a ratio.

The bolded seems to me as belief being directly related to psychological well-being and positive psych. functioning characteristics, not just better access to social support. Social support for the social aspect of mental health is necessary but not essential to psychological well being if all other things are in good balance, which seems to be the case for those with belief.


2. 2. Do you believe that someone can be talked out of what they believe?
Why not? If one can be talked into belief in a higher power, as the AA seems to be quite successfully doing in recovery programs, and also for people outside of such programs who have turned to spirituality, the opposite is true as well. It is a sad thing that people have turned off from their religion, not because they lack religion now, but the bitterness and hopelessness that their experience has caused them to carry with them. That is a terrible burden that can manifest as negative psychological functioning characteristics that affect their well-being.



I don't have any issues with the study as such other than I don't know what real purpose it serves.

It's really just stating the obvious honestly.


I wouldn't disagree that atheists might have poorer 'psychological well being' overall than those that belong to religious groups. But it depends on what questions they asked.

And if that's what they found then that's what they found. There's no actual data provided to look at this in detail, but okay I don't have reason to doubt it.

Apart from the social support aspect, atheists are - not to put too fine a point on it - realists. Perhaps we carry the weight of the world more on our shoulders? That could be a factor too. Just throwing that out there.

As people, we are who we are. Would I like to go through life more happy-go-lucky / no cares in the world / oblivious to what's going on? It's rhetorical question - an unanswerable one.


The world needs to be populated by all types of people. Trust me, not believing in god is not bitter and hopeless, nor is it an intolerable burden. Quite the opposite.

Last edited by Cruithne; 10-26-2022 at 12:59 PM..
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Old 10-26-2022, 01:01 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruithne View Post
I don't have any issues with the study as such other than I don't know what real purpose it serves.

It's really just stating the obvious honestly.

That atheists can suffer from "worse positive psychological functioning characteristics, social support relationships, and health behaviors and On dimensions related to psychological well-being, atheists and agnostics tended to have worse outcomes" was not obvious to me. So the report was informative for me. It sort of helps in understanding the insanity of some of the posts and arguments that happen here. My experience with atheists is entirely from CD, other than the insufferable loud mouths on TV and other media following the 9/11 tragedy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruithne View Post
Apart from the social support aspect, atheists are - not to put too fine a point on it - realists. Perhaps we carry the weight of the world more on our shoulders?

Wow really, the whole entire weight? And what exactly do they do about it that others, the 80 to 90% of the world, don't or won't?
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Old 10-26-2022, 01:52 PM
 
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Default Atheists and health

As an atheist, I was very into health, physical well-being, prowess, and skill as a martial artist and mental health as a meditator. Having the zealousness and diligence of youth, I was quite disciplined about it all and had an abiding faith in our ability to attain valid knowledge about Reality. Much of that remains, but my abiding faith in our knowledge was tested severely after my encounter. It took decades to restore my faith in what we actually claim to know about Reality using science.

I succeeded and as a theist, I have no need for magical thinking or whatever suffices for comfort to the typical religious. But I am privy to the constant presence of God through what I have come to call quantum entanglement with God from my encounter. The existence of God's consciousness within us all is not remotely in doubt, IMO. Our individual awareness of it and responsiveness to it varies widely for varied and diverse reasons.
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Old 10-26-2022, 01:58 PM
 
15,811 posts, read 6,873,166 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
As an atheist, I was very into health, physical well-being, prowess, and skill as a martial artist and mental health as a meditator. Having the zealousness and diligence of youth, I was quite disciplined about it all and had an abiding faith in our ability to attain valid knowledge about Reality. Much of that remains, but my abiding faith in our knowledge was tested severely after my encounter. It took decades to restore my faith in what we actually claim to know about Reality using science.

I succeeded and as a theist, I have no need for magical thinking or whatever suffices for comfort to the typical religious. But I am privy to the constant presence of God through what I have come to call quantum entanglement with God from my encounter. The existence of God's consciousness within us all is not remotely in doubt, IMO. Our individual awareness of it and responsiveness to it varies widely for varied and diverse reasons.

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Old 10-26-2022, 02:08 PM
 
Location: Somewhere out there.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cb2008 View Post
Wow really, the whole entire weight? And what exactly do they do about it that others, the 80 to 90% of the world, don't or won't?

It's an expression.

https://idioms.thefreedictionary.com...t+of+the+world
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Old 10-26-2022, 03:48 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruithne View Post

Thank you for the reference. I was perhaps was not being clear in my response to atheists "we carry the weight of the world more on our shoulders?"
THe weight rests on the shoulders of the larger group of non-atheists as well. Perhaps due to their access to social support they are able to foment activism and push for remedies for the suffering, and even realize them. They have several options such political activism, groups that form over some interest, community organizations, their church and religious organizations. This probably gives relief from the weight they carry and also provides positive energy and psychological benefits.

I am sure these avenues are available for atheists as well. Do they avail of them?
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Old 10-26-2022, 11:50 PM
 
Location: Somewhere out there.
10,489 posts, read 6,100,692 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
As an atheist, I was very into health, physical well-being, prowess, and skill as a martial artist and mental health as a meditator. Having the zealousness and diligence of youth, I was quite disciplined about it all and had an abiding faith in our ability to attain valid knowledge about Reality. Much of that remains, but my abiding faith in our knowledge was tested severely after my encounter. It took decades to restore my faith in what we actually claim to know about Reality using science.

I succeeded and as a theist, I have no need for magical thinking or whatever suffices for comfort to the typical religious. But I am privy to the constant presence of God through what I have come to call quantum entanglement with God from my encounter. The existence of God's consciousness within us all is not remotely in doubt, IMO. Our individual awareness of it and responsiveness to it varies widely for varied and diverse reasons.

I suspect you are pretty level headed whatever your position.
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Old 10-26-2022, 11:52 PM
 
Location: Somewhere out there.
10,489 posts, read 6,100,692 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cb2008 View Post
Thank you for the reference. I was perhaps was not being clear in my response to atheists "we carry the weight of the world more on our shoulders?"
THe weight rests on the shoulders of the larger group of non-atheists as well. Perhaps due to their access to social support they are able to foment activism and push for remedies for the suffering, and even realize them. They have several options such political activism, groups that form over some interest, community organizations, their church and religious organizations. This probably gives relief from the weight they carry and also provides positive energy and psychological benefits.

I am sure these avenues are available for atheists as well. Do they avail of them?
Of course. People are people.
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