Atheists and health (myth, suicide, Islam, Muslims)

[ElijahAstin]

Originally Posted by cb2008

What QB actually said - she is physically healthy, fit, and mentally healthy as she is able to manage her anxieties when they occur. That is a healthy state of being.

Fortunately for us, QB repped my post, so while I wasn’t necessarily calling you wrong in the first instance, it looks like I’m the one who’s right. But if I had been wrong I would have had the decency and humility to apologize (which is something I’ve never seen you do).

I also was not calling QB unhealthy but acknowledging, as someone whose anxiety has been clinical at various times in his life, that the feelings QB was describing are more than just the anxious moments that affect everyone. It would seem that QB is healthy because she recognizes her predisposition to anxiety and treats it accordingly. Maybe that’s an issue you’ve never had, and I’m happy you’ve never had to go through that struggle. But there are some things us anxious-leaning people can pick up on that others cannot. Like depression (which I’ve also experienced at clinical levels), it comes and goes in waves and sometimes (but not always) is triggered in response to external situations.

While religious and spiritual practices can help some people with anxiety (and that’s something a competent mental healthcare professional can help you determine in creating a treatment plan), they are not a panacea. It is irresponsible, belittling, and flat-out wrong to declare that religion and spirituality are necessary to achieve mental health for all people in all situations. Even recognized treatment methods, between medication, talk therapy, cognitive behavioral therapy, and meditation (to name a few) are not one-size fits all solutions that benefit everyone in the same way.

Originally Posted by cb2008

You on other hand would like to endow her with a struggle that does not exist so you can win whatever argument you are having with yourself. I hope your reading comprehension skill, that you seem quite anxious about, come you your aid. Good luck

I am disappointed (but not surprised) that you invoke my anxiety as an attempted jab, which—wittingly or not—is also a jab at QB and all other people who have struggled with anxiety at some point in their lives.

You also downplay the resiliency QB has exhibited to maintain her healthy state of being. My reading comprehension and I give her all the credit in the world.

[Cruithne]

Originally Posted by cb2008

So you think belief is a state of evolution from atheism? Seems right to me

That's not exactly what I said, but okay. I have no way of knowing if early humans were atheists prior to the development of language. It's just what I surmise.

I suspect that once early humans developed the ability to communicate with one another through language they probably also started to question the world outside of themselves.

Certainly verbal language developed long before any kind of written word. And we know that almost every civilisation developed their own creation myths, and you can't develop and communicate a creation myth until you have language.
Early beliefs about creation were almost all polytheistic and were passed on word of mouth before anybody had the ability to write them down. And of course the myths most likely changed over time like chinese whispers.

This seems like the most likely turn of events to me.

[cb2008]

Originally Posted by Cruithne

That's not exactly what I said, but okay. I have no way of knowing if early humans were atheists prior to the development of language. It's just what I surmise.

I suspect that once early humans developed the ability to communicate with one another through language they probably also started to question the world outside of themselves.

Certainly verbal language developed long before any kind of written word. And we know that almost every civilisation developed their own creation myths, and you can't develop and communicate a creation myth until you have language.
Early beliefs about creation were almost all polytheistic and were passed on word of mouth before anybody had the ability to write them down. And of course the myths most likely changed over time like chinese whispers.

This seems like the most likely turn of events to me.

Interesting. I feel they went within.
As humans evolved I feel they started inquiring within, Who or What am I? What they observe both outside and within, and the difference. What hurts and how do i know it hurts? They observed death. What dies, and returns to earth? And what remains? What is life, where does it begin? With breath? What is breath how did it begin?
These questions became words.

[ElijahAstin]

Originally Posted by Cruithne

That's not exactly what I said, but okay. I have no way of knowing if early humans were atheists prior to the development of language. It's just what I surmise.

I suspect that once early humans developed the ability to communicate with one another through language they probably also started to question the world outside of themselves.

Certainly verbal language developed long before any kind of written word. And we know that almost every civilisation developed their own creation myths, and you can't develop and communicate a creation myth until you have language.
Early beliefs about creation were almost all polytheistic and were passed on word of mouth before anybody had the ability to write them down. And of course the myths most likely changed over time like chinese whispers.

This seems like the most likely turn of events to me.

I don’t think early humans were atheists any more than great apes, dolphins, and Eurasian magpies are atheist. To believe, or not believe, requires conscious thought and greater intellectual capacity. It makes sense that humankind would start to wonder where they came from and why things happen and that the idea of a higher power would be an appealing way to explain things they do not understand (and I state this objectively and without negative judgment). Presumably, the first atheists would have arisen around the same time.

[Northsouth]

Originally Posted by Hayle White

It would be nice if you would review the rules of netiquette and stop trying to dictate my posts.

Like it or not, the article is peer-reviewed accepted science.

Why are you so combative? YOU started the thread, you should expect some heat. You seem quite angry and willing to talk about atheists but not willing to talk TO them. If you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen.

[Hayle White]

Originally Posted by Northsouth

Why are you so combative? YOU started the thread, you should expect some heat. You seem quite angry and willing to talk about atheists but not willing to talk TO them. If you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen.

Shut up. If you would have read, you would have realized I didn't start this thread.

[Northsouth]

Originally Posted by Harry Diogenes

The vitriol is returning the favor. As for determined opposition, it is not our fault your (plural) arguments are bad.

I find the amount of non-spiritual spirituality quiet disturbing.



Of course there is. Atheism is a response to religious claims. What do you want us to argue about, cabbages?



Just as you believe the same for the religious and spiritual.

LOL that's hilarious and a great response to that poster. She wanders over to the A&A all the time and that's ok but atheists are not allowed to participate in the R&S just because we disagree with them? I don't think that poster worries about being berated when she enters the A&A to argue, oh I mean 'debate', must get boring over here in the R&S. Of course, she would never NOT be welcome in the A&A. What hypocrisy.

[Northsouth]

Originally Posted by Hayle White

Shut up. If you would have read, you would have realized I didn't start this thread.

Excuse me? Shut up? That is mature as hell. You can't tolerate anyone disagreeing with you at all yet you dish it out. And yes, you are the OP of this thread. What is the matter with you?

[cb2008]

Originally Posted by ElijahAstin

Fortunately for us, QB repped my post, so while I wasn’t necessarily calling you wrong in the first instance, it looks like I’m the one who’s right. But if I had been wrong I would have had the decency and humility to apologize (which is something I’ve never seen you do).

I also was not calling QB unhealthy but acknowledging, as someone whose anxiety has been clinical at various times in his life, that the feelings QB was describing are more than just the anxious moments that affect everyone. It would seem that QB is healthy because she recognizes her predisposition to anxiety and treats it accordingly. Maybe that’s an issue you’ve never had, and I’m happy you’ve never had to go through that struggle. But there are some things us anxious-leaning people can pick up on that others cannot. Like depression (which I’ve also experienced at clinical levels), it comes and goes in waves and sometimes (but not always) is triggered in response to external situations.

While religious and spiritual practices can help some people with anxiety (and that’s something a competent mental healthcare professional can help you determine in creating a treatment plan), they are not a panacea. It is irresponsible, belittling, and flat-out wrong to declare that religion and spirituality are necessary to achieve mental health for all people in all situations. Even recognized treatment methods, between medication, talk therapy, cognitive behavioral therapy, and meditation (to name a few) are not one-size fits all solutions that benefit everyone in the same way.


I am disappointed (but not surprised) that you invoke my anxiety as an attempted jab, which—wittingly or not—is also a jab at QB and all other people who have struggled with anxiety at some point in their lives.

You also downplay the resiliency QB has exhibited to maintain her healthy state of being. My reading comprehension and I give her all the credit in the world.

Here is the thing. Not only is QB a genuine and a healthy person, apparently she is generous with her reps. She spreads it around. I too believe in being generous with reps. They are free, why not! Reps all around. They make people happy and feel special.

But you may continue making up stuff that you can argue back with. Carry on.

[ElijahAstin]

Originally Posted by cb2008

Here is the thing. Not only is QB a genuine and a healthy person, apparently she is generous with her reps. She spreads it around. I too believe in being generous with reps. They are free, why not! Reps all around. They make people happy and feel special.

But you may continue making up stuff that you can argue back with. Carry on.

I see it took you a few hours to come up with this gem. The sad part is that this is the closest I’ve ever seen you come to admitting that you’re wrong. On the other hand, maybe this is your first step in extricating yourself from the cognitive dissonance train and accepting reality. I’m here for you whenever you’re ready.