Atheists and health (sunday, Jesus, missionaries, witness)

[Harry Diogenes]

Originally Posted by LearnMe

I remember, and it's about that I've tried to further explain why or how my being an atheist is not a response to anything. It's a conclusion based on my knowledge and observations regardless those of others.

Yes, for me it is also a conclusion, based on evidence about what other people have claimed. I did not think of the concept of gods myself.

I was raised in the Greek Orthodox church, but stopped believing those claims because I saw no evidence for those claims, and saw that those claims raised more questions than they answered. But my atheism was in response to those religious claims.

[Shirina]

Well ... let's talk a little about religion and well-being ... shall we? Uh oh, here comes Shirina again with a long post filled with actual information - and we don't want that! And no post longer than a Tweet!


Here's an observation. Ever notice that both Christian and Muslim missionaries always swarm those impoverished, uneducated, starving, often war-torn countries? It's like picking the lowest hanging fruit, beelining for desperate, starving, lost people who will cling to any life preserver you throw them. Pretty easy to convert those types - ”just get down on your knees right now, repent your sins, and accept Jesus as your lord and savior - and then, and only then, you can have a sandwich and perhaps an antibiotic for that nasty infection ....”

Even the pushy proselytizers here in the States - notice where they always hang out. Yep. Places like prisons, homeless shelters, missions, military bases, bus stations, hospitals, battered women shelters, orphanages and group homes ... yeah. All those kinds of places where you expect to find people experiencing loneliness, sadness, desperation, poverty, and fear. Religion PREYS on these kinds of emotions, deliberately targeting emotionally vulnerable people to win brownie points for their god.

And before anyone tries to tell me that isn't true, answer me this. Why don't you proselytizers go to a prison or a homeless shelter and just sit down and talk to the people there? Ask them about their problems, how they ended up so down on their luck, ask them about their families, their health issues, their hopes and dreams ... and never, not once, mention Jesus, God, the Good News or any of that malarky. Would you do it? Would you bother helping these people unless you could get a conversion under your belt?

Kinda puts things into perspective ... doesn't it. I can pretty much guarantee you that if you actually talked to these people and just took an actual interest in them, you'd see a massive change in their personalities. Just knowing someone else actually cares about them can make all the difference.

It wasn't your god. It wasn't your religion. Desperate people will latch on to anything if they think it will help them. You could preach to them about Lucky the Ducky, patron god of yellow rubber duckies children play with in the bath tub. Why yes, convert to Lucky's religion and the whole world will be open to you! They'll gravitate toward literally ANYTHING if they think for one nanosecond that ... just maybe ...

In so many ways, it's disingenuous because what happens when god doesn't miraculously change their lives?

At Columbia University some years ago, they did a simple experiment. They took two groups of students, one group who were perfectly normal, well-adjusted people, and the second group which was composed of students with diagnosed depression.

The idea behind this experiment is the students had to play a game that was rigged to be unwinnable. Even if the game had to outright cheat in order to make the students lose, the game would do so. The ”normal” group of students always felt as if they could have just one more crack at it, surely they could beat the game. Just one more try! It was as if they never realized the game was rigged against them.

The group of depressed students played the game one or twice and immediately stopped, saying the game is rigged. There's no point in playing a game you can't possibly win. There were other experiments like this with different tests - some subtle, some pretty overt. But the general result was that people who suffer from depression are far and away more in tune with reality than those who are psychologically normal.

I've believed for a long time that happiness is mostly about self-delusion. Happy people are generally unaware of reality in many respects. Their happiness derives from convincing themselves that things aren't as bad as they really are (except for those who really do have charmed lives). They might get pulled over for speeding and be issued a $300 fine. Then find a quarter on the ground - and they can convince themselves that finding a quarter is more positive than a $300 fine is negative. Strange, really.

So would it be all that surprising then that there are a lot of depressed atheists? Hmm? For many depressed people, believing in the fantasy of religion is nigh impossible - because we see reality as it really is. We can't trick our logic centers to accept as true the ridiculous story of Jesus - to accept on faith that thousands of years ago, there was magic in the world - but only in the deserts of the Middle East - and for some inexplicable reason, all that magic just ... stopped. And so did the appearance of gods. Sorry, no can do.

No doubt those who are suffering from loneliness, poverty, homelessness, and the like would love to dive into religion - in the same way some people dive into alcohol or drugs or their jobs or hobbies or anything else that diverts their attention away from the mess their lives have become. It doesn't mean religion is doing anything supernatural - doesn't mean there's an actual god reaching his hand down to make someone feel better. For that matter, it seems rather sadistic for a god to put someone in such a bad position in life only to reach down and pat him on the head like a good little doggy. Feel better? Aww, there's a good human. But will god help fix his life?

No. The person very well might pick himself up and straighten out his own life - but of course god gets all the credit for doing precisely nothing. Religion has a bad reputation of taking credit for things it has no business taking credit for - like, for instance - morality, goodness, marriage, in fact, religion likes to take credit for the whole of existence. Pretending like religion is the cure for the bad in life is just absurd. There are happy people, sad people, and people who waver in between. Religion is just another panacea that people believe in because they're desperate to believe in something. Doesn't make it at all real.

[QuakerBaker]

Originally Posted by Shirina

Here's an observation. Ever notice that both Christian and Muslim missionaries always swarm those impoverished, uneducated, starving, often war-torn countries? It's like picking the lowest hanging fruit, beelining for desperate, starving, lost people who will cling to any life preserver you throw them. Pretty easy to convert those types - ”just get down on your knees right now, repent your sins, and accept Jesus as your lord and savior - and then, and only then, you can have a sandwich and perhaps an antibiotic for that nasty infection ....”

Even the pushy proselytizers here in the States - notice where they always hang out. Yep. Places like prisons, homeless shelters, missions, military bases, bus stations, hospitals, battered women shelters, orphanages and group homes ... yeah. All those kinds of places where you expect to find people experiencing loneliness, sadness, desperation, poverty, and fear. Religion PREYS on these kinds of emotions, deliberately targeting emotionally vulnerable people to win brownie points for their god.

Why are there homeless shelters in Muskegon Heights and none in affluent North Muskegon? Is it not based on actual needs of the specific area?

Perhaps, many Christian missionaries go to places where people are starving because they actually have a need for community service that is in greater volume than the need in Beverly Hills?

Perhaps Christian missionaries don't make it a precondition to accept Jesus in order to get food and medicine? I've done charity community service my whole life. I did over 400 hours of logged community service in high school alone and I never once did that or saw another Christian doing that.

If missionaries spend a lot of time in prisons and homeless shelters, perhaps it is because they believe they can help people get back on their feet as opposed to a diabolical plan of "picking the lowest hanging fruit."



Sometimes we only see the best of our own side and only the worst of the other side. I can't help but feel you are looking at only the worst of Christianity here.

Originally Posted by ElijahAstin

the feelings QB was describing are more than just the anxious moments that affect everyone. It would seem that QB is healthy because she recognizes her predisposition to anxiety and treats it accordingly.

I have been clinically diagnosed with GAD and at times have been paralyzed with anxiety. I have made improvements and do okay with it.

[LearnMe]

Originally Posted by Harry Diogenes

Yes, for me it is also a conclusion, based on evidence about what other people have claimed. I did not think of the concept of gods myself.

I was raised in the Greek Orthodox church, but stopped believing those claims because I saw no evidence for those claims, and saw that those claims raised more questions than they answered. But my atheism was in response to those religious claims.

If your atheism is a response to those religious claims, then I can see why you define atheism the way you do, and regardless how we might define atheism or for whatever reasons, I am not aware of any good evidence a god exists. Therefore I am an atheist too. Nuff said I'd say.

[Cruithne]

Originally Posted by ElijahAstin

I don’t think early humans were atheists any more than great apes, dolphins, and Eurasian magpies are atheist. To believe, or not believe, requires conscious thought and greater intellectual capacity. It makes sense that humankind would start to wonder where they came from and why things happen and that the idea of a higher power would be an appealing way to explain things they do not understand (and I state this objectively and without negative judgment). Presumably, the first atheists would have arisen around the same time.

Excellent points. Cannot rep you again.

[ElijahAstin]

Originally Posted by Cruithne

Excellent points. Cannot rep you again.

Thank you very kindly.

Originally Posted by QuakerBaker

I have been clinically diagnosed with GAD and at times have been paralyzed with anxiety. I have made improvements and do okay with it.

I’m sure you’re doing even better than you realize, but that’s not always easy to see from our perspective, so I can empathize. Also, while I cannot speak for the motivations of others, I did not mean to drag you into a proxy war!

[Shirina]

Originally Posted by QuakerBaker

Why are there homeless shelters in Muskegon Heights and none in affluent North Muskegon? Is it not based on actual needs of the specific area?

Which is irrelevant. Notice how you don't see Christian missionaries hanging out at the entrance to Goldman Sachs or the NY Stock Exchange handing out pamphlets to men wearing suits that cost more than the missionary's house? Notice how you never see these missionaries at airports, but they're all over the place in bus stations - because, by and large, only the poor would ever take the bus on a long trip. Anyone with any monetary means at all would much rather fly.

Do you think that there are no depressed, lonely, fearful people who are also successful and wealthy? Of course there are. But you *still* do not see Christianity flocking to 5th Avenue or Beverly Hills ... do you. No. Because those who are depressed, lonely, fearful AND living in squalor are far and away more vulnerable. As I said, it's all about conversions.

Both Christianity and Islam have a mandate to conquer the world. Make no mistake about it.

Originally Posted by QuakerBaker

Perhaps, many Christian missionaries go to places where people are starving because they actually have a need for community service that is in greater volume than the need in Beverly Hills?

That might be true in certain cases. But people are people no matter where you go - and everyone is beset with problems. Doesn't matter how wealthy you are. You might be surprised how appreciative even someone in an Armani suit or climbing out of a Jag would be for a simple and sincere friendly word.

Originally Posted by QuakerBaker

Perhaps Christian missionaries don't make it a precondition to accept Jesus in order to get food and medicine?

Maybe they don't - and it wouldn't matter one way or the other. I don't recall ever speaking to you before so let me say: I spent my formative years in India (I was born in Hyderabad). I have personally born witness to the damage missionaries do to the "native cultures" - always shoving Jesus or Allah down the throats of everyone else. Families, households, entire communities are often divided and then turn against each other as one half converts and the other half holds on to their traditional beliefs.

And Hinduism has been around thousands of years before Christinity was even a spark in someone's neuron. If Christianity were so ... True ... then why would god wait 97,000 years to tell the world about it? That's 100 different ways of sus ... if you ask me.

But yeah ... if Christian missionaries wanted to be helpful, they could come into a rural village, offer up food, medicine, and practical knowledge - and then leave. No preaching. No proselytizing. No pushing religion. Shouldn't the goal be to do good by the fellow human beings you're helping, not to push a foreign religion, a foreign god, and to petrify everyone with hellthreat? After all, if these simple rural folk know nothing about Jesus, they can't be held accountable for not believing ... right? So all you're doing is putting more people at risk of burning forever by bringing Christianity to remote places in the world.

Of course, I don't believe in Hell - such a primitive, one-dimensional concept with very little complexity much less creativity. But if the missionaries do, then by the tenets of their own religion, every person they expose to Christianity now HAS to convert or burn forever. To my way of thinking, that's just playing dirty pool.

Originally Posted by QuakerBaker

I've done charity community service my whole life. I did over 400 hours of logged community service in high school alone and I never once did that or saw another Christian doing that.

I actually lived under Third World conditions in a heavily missionaried country - and I have seen it.

But let's just say that most Christian missionaries do not hold food and medicine hostage until the "natives" get an earful of proselytization. As I said previously, according to the beliefs of most Christians (a very convenient belief, of course, but there it is) is that people who have never heard of Jesus will not burn in hell. So everyone they expose will burn.

And remember that most Hindus believe in their religion just as strongly and devoutly as Christians or Muslims believe in theirs. In fact, that can be said of nearly ANY non-Christian or non-Muslim or non-Jewish believer. So these poor people are now expected to reject literally thousands of years of religious history rooted in their own culture, their own language, their own geographical area - and accept as absolutely 100% true these foreign gods and foreign religions and foreign rules - almost everything about these Palestinian myths are foreign. And all they have to go by is ... the word of a bunch of ... foreign strangers.

See the delimma? And now they have to just up and reject everything they've been taught or they're going to burn. Other than the horrible psychological game of Hellthreat - what possible reason would someone have to convert? Well, here's another thing missionaries sometimes do: promise converts the moon. "Just accept Jesus as your lord and savior and things will get better ...."

Yes, I know not all missionaries do that, either. But it's a tactic they used on my mother. I heard it with my own ears. She eventually rejected this crazy story of a god sacrificing himself because a woman made out of a rib was seduced by a talking snake to eat a forbidden fruit from a magical tree - but I remember how she waffled for awhile - and it was all because of the Hellthreat. Oh sure, the missionaries were oh so gentle about telling us the horrible fate that awaits non-believers ... but there it was.

I was nine years old at the time. And even at that age I recognized the impossible dichotomy of a purely good, compassionate, and forgiving god burning people forever - not for being a bad person, but for simply not believing. One might even say that my path to atheism began at that moment.

And let's not forget about how some religious sects - need I even say their name? - go to places like Aids-ridden sub-Saharan Africa and preach to them the evils of contraception. That way they can spread Aids even more throughout their populations because, my gosh, every act of intercourse MUST have a chance for a baby - in a land already far more overpopulated than the environment can support. But who cares about that. As long as the baby is born, it doesn't matter if it lives another 3 years in hunger and pain until it finally dies in the dirt. Right?

Originally Posted by QuakerBaker

If missionaries spend a lot of time in prisons and homeless shelters, perhaps it is because they believe they can help people get back on their feet as opposed to a diabolical plan of "picking the lowest hanging fruit."

Okay, then answer the question I put forth in my previous post. If the ultimate, primary goal for these people is to "get them back on their feet" as you say - then why bring religion into it at all? Why not simply provide counseling, friendship, a ready ear - simply be their friend, listen to their problems, give them some sage advice, given them information on various government programs they may not know about - and then help them apply. Why not? I'll even consider it acceptable for a missionary to suggest a church or leave a card just in case the person wants to learn more. But really ... that should be sufficient.

Why does there have to be proselytizing and preaching and, more than likely, the threat of Hell? "Well, you don't have to convert - but if you don't ... well ... I can't be responsible when Satan sticks his trident where the sun don't shine ..."

And damn .... these people are already as low as they can get - so let's kick them while they're down by telling them how they're just pond scum deserving of being tortured forever, you dirty sinner! Just what I would want to hear if I were on the cusp of suicide. Oh but wait ... if you grovel and beg, Jesus will forgive you! Isn't that wonderful? It's the same EXACT relationship a battered wife has with her abusive husband. It is an inherently toxic relationship. It's akin to breaking someone's leg and then selling them a crutch.

At any rate ... my question still stands.

Originally Posted by QuakerBaker

Sometimes we only see the best of our own side and only the worst of the other side. I can't help but feel you are looking at only the worst of Christianity here.

My accusations, as it were, are levied on Christianity itself - the dogma, the superstition, the hellthreat, the nonsense in the Bible, and to be quite honest with you, it's increasingly hate-filled message.

I have NO doubt that most individual Christians believe they are doing good. I'm not suggesting that Christian missionaries are these evil psychopaths out to make everyone miserable, wreck their lives, and to stir the pot.

But as an atheist - yes - I do consider the way both Christians and Muslims run around the world trying to convert as many people as they can instead of simply letting other cultures exist in peace - well - I do not consider it good. As I said, Christianity and Islam have a mandate to literally conquer the world - a one-world government predicated on theocratic authoritarianism and far-right fascism. No thanks. I kind of like my freedom. The Muslims are the worst of the two because, especially in Africa, they're trying to convert as many people and as many countries as they can to fill up their ranks with more Jihadists, radicals, and terrorists.

But Christians do their own brand of harm - whether intentional or not - the result is the same. Which is why I can't understand why, if the true goal of missionary work is to help feed and treat the very poor, why there has to be any religion involved at all. Just help the people and that be the end of it.

Originally Posted by QuakerBaker

I have been clinically diagnosed with GAD and at times have been paralyzed with anxiety. I have made improvements and do okay with it.

Oh, I'm a walking textbook of mental illnesses - from PTSD to severe depression with BPD in there somewhere and ... who knows what else. That's just what I know I have. Honestly I tried religion and it didn't work. At all. What can one do?

[LearnMe]

Originally Posted by Shirina

Oh, I'm a walking textbook of mental illnesses - from PTSD to severe depression with BPD in there somewhere and ... who knows what else. That's just what I know I have. Honestly I tried religion and it didn't work. At all. What can one do?

Lo siento mucho...

Not sure if you saw that comment I posted about the recent NOVA program I just watched, having to do with some break-through research involving the benefits of psychedelic drugs as part of a therapy conducted by professional therapists for people who suffer from the mental challenges you describe. Over 70% of those participating in the study demonstrated significant improvement. Some who claim to be completely cured of whatever problem they were dealing with beforehand. Additionally, the common experience their "trip" provided for them that was extremely powerful, profound and long lasting without the need for drugs going forward. Spiritual in nature, as the indigenous people have used peyote for thousands of years now, for example, to make contact with the spirit world.

All seems very promising and something I would look into if I suffered from those sorts of ailments...

For this atheist's mental health, I think it's time for me to part company with this forum to begin preparation of our BSB now. Here's hoping you and everyone else has a transcendental Sunday! Cheers.

[cb2008]

Originally Posted by Shirina

Which is irrelevant. Notice how you don't see Christian missionaries hanging out at the entrance to Goldman Sachs or the NY Stock Exchange handing out pamphlets to men wearing suits that cost more than the missionary's house? Notice how you never see these missionaries at airports, but they're all over the place in bus stations - because, by and large, only the poor would ever take the bus on a long trip. Anyone with any monetary means at all would much rather fly.

Do you think that there are no depressed, lonely, fearful people who are also successful and wealthy? Of course there are. But you *still* do not see Christianity flocking to 5th Avenue or Beverly Hills ... do you. No. Because those who are depressed, lonely, fearful AND living in squalor are far and away more vulnerable. As I said, it's all about conversions.

Both Christianity and Islam have a mandate to conquer the world. Make no mistake about it.



That might be true in certain cases. But people are people no matter where you go - and everyone is beset with problems. Doesn't matter how wealthy you are. You might be surprised how appreciative even someone in an Armani suit or climbing out of a Jag would be for a simple and sincere friendly word.



Maybe they don't - and it wouldn't matter one way or the other. I don't recall ever speaking to you before so let me say: I spent my formative years in India (I was born in Hyderabad). I have personally born witness to the damage missionaries do to the "native cultures" - always shoving Jesus or Allah down the throats of everyone else. Families, households, entire communities are often divided and then turn against each other as one half converts and the other half holds on to their traditional beliefs.

And Hinduism has been around thousands of years before Christinity was even a spark in someone's neuron. If Christianity were so ... True ... then why would god wait 97,000 years to tell the world about it? That's 100 different ways of sus ... if you ask me.

But yeah ... if Christian missionaries wanted to be helpful, they could come into a rural village, offer up food, medicine, and practical knowledge - and then leave. No preaching. No proselytizing. No pushing religion. Shouldn't the goal be to do good by the fellow human beings you're helping, not to push a foreign religion, a foreign god, and to petrify everyone with hellthreat? After all, if these simple rural folk know nothing about Jesus, they can't be held accountable for not believing ... right? So all you're doing is putting more people at risk of burning forever by bringing Christianity to remote places in the world.

Of course, I don't believe in Hell - such a primitive, one-dimensional concept with very little complexity much less creativity. But if the missionaries do, then by the tenets of their own religion, every person they expose to Christianity now HAS to convert or burn forever. To my way of thinking, that's just playing dirty pool.



I actually lived under Third World conditions in a heavily missionaried country - and I have seen it.

But let's just say that most Christian missionaries do not hold food and medicine hostage until the "natives" get an earful of proselytization. As I said previously, according to the beliefs of most Christians (a very convenient belief, of course, but there it is) is that people who have never heard of Jesus will not burn in hell. So everyone they expose will burn.

And remember that most Hindus believe in their religion just as strongly and devoutly as Christians or Muslims believe in theirs. In fact, that can be said of nearly ANY non-Christian or non-Muslim or non-Jewish believer. So these poor people are now expected to reject literally thousands of years of religious history rooted in their own culture, their own language, their own geographical area - and accept as absolutely 100% true these foreign gods and foreign religions and foreign rules - almost everything about these Palestinian myths are foreign. And all they have to go by is ... the word of a bunch of ... foreign strangers.

See the delimma? And now they have to just up and reject everything they've been taught or they're going to burn. Other than the horrible psychological game of Hellthreat - what possible reason would someone have to convert? Well, here's another thing missionaries sometimes do: promise converts the moon. "Just accept Jesus as your lord and savior and things will get better ...."

Yes, I know not all missionaries do that, either. But it's a tactic they used on my mother. I heard it with my own ears. She eventually rejected this crazy story of a god sacrificing himself because a woman made out of a rib was seduced by a talking snake to eat a forbidden fruit from a magical tree - but I remember how she waffled for awhile - and it was all because of the Hellthreat. Oh sure, the missionaries were oh so gentle about telling us the horrible fate that awaits non-believers ... but there it was.

I was nine years old at the time. And even at that age I recognized the impossible dichotomy of a purely good, compassionate, and forgiving god burning people forever - not for being a bad person, but for simply not believing. One might even say that my path to atheism began at that moment.

And let's not forget about how some religious sects - need I even say their name? - go to places like Aids-ridden sub-Saharan Africa and preach to them the evils of contraception. That way they can spread Aids even more throughout their populations because, my gosh, every act of intercourse MUST have a chance for a baby - in a land already far more overpopulated than the environment can support. But who cares about that. As long as the baby is born, it doesn't matter if it lives another 3 years in hunger and pain until it finally dies in the dirt. Right?



Okay, then answer the question I put forth in my previous post. If the ultimate, primary goal for these people is to "get them back on their feet" as you say - then why bring religion into it at all? Why not simply provide counseling, friendship, a ready ear - simply be their friend, listen to their problems, give them some sage advice, given them information on various government programs they may not know about - and then help them apply. Why not? I'll even consider it acceptable for a missionary to suggest a church or leave a card just in case the person wants to learn more. But really ... that should be sufficient.

Why does there have to be proselytizing and preaching and, more than likely, the threat of Hell? "Well, you don't have to convert - but if you don't ... well ... I can't be responsible when Satan sticks his trident where the sun don't shine ..."

And damn .... these people are already as low as they can get - so let's kick them while they're down by telling them how they're just pond scum deserving of being tortured forever, you dirty sinner! Just what I would want to hear if I were on the cusp of suicide. Oh but wait ... if you grovel and beg, Jesus will forgive you! Isn't that wonderful? It's the same EXACT relationship a battered wife has with her abusive husband. It is an inherently toxic relationship. It's akin to breaking someone's leg and then selling them a crutch.

At any rate ... my question still stands.



My accusations, as it were, are levied on Christianity itself - the dogma, the superstition, the hellthreat, the nonsense in the Bible, and to be quite honest with you, it's increasingly hate-filled message.

I have NO doubt that most individual Christians believe they are doing good. I'm not suggesting that Christian missionaries are these evil psychopaths out to make everyone miserable, wreck their lives, and to stir the pot.

But as an atheist - yes - I do consider the way both Christians and Muslims run around the world trying to convert as many people as they can instead of simply letting other cultures exist in peace - well - I do not consider it good. As I said, Christianity and Islam have a mandate to literally conquer the world - a one-world government predicated on theocratic authoritarianism and far-right fascism. No thanks. I kind of like my freedom. The Muslims are the worst of the two because, especially in Africa, they're trying to convert as many people and as many countries as they can to fill up their ranks with more Jihadists, radicals, and terrorists.

But Christians do their own brand of harm - whether intentional or not - the result is the same. Which is why I can't understand why, if the true goal of missionary work is to help feed and treat the very poor, why there has to be any religion involved at all. Just help the people and that be the end of it.



Oh, I'm a walking textbook of mental illnesses - from PTSD to severe depression with BPD in there somewhere and ... who knows what else. That's just what I know I have. Honestly I tried religion and it didn't work. At all. What can one do?

I believe you make a lot of good points, particularly about religious conversion. Many of those nations and cultures are now fighting back, reclaiming their culture and religion, and resisting foreign influences by banning missionaries and conversions. Unfortunately this also turns into ethnic clashes, trageting of minorities, ending in brutal killings and destruction of lives.

You must realize however it is not entirely religion that is to be blamed. The US for instance has an official Office of International Freedom of Religion under which guise it can hold nations that ban conversions for religious oppression. https://www.state.gov/bureaus-office...gious-freedom/
I have mixed feeling about this, i do not think this is an entirely benign institution free of political strings, with favored nations that are not questioned, and others that are sanctioned..

[Shirina]

Originally Posted by LearnMe

Lo siento mucho...

Not sure if you saw that comment I posted about the recent NOVA program I just watched, having to do with some break-through research involving the benefits of psychedelic drugs as part of a therapy conducted by professional therapists for people who suffer from the mental challenges you describe. Over 70% of those participating in the study demonstrated significant improvement. Some who claim to be completely cured of whatever problem they were dealing with beforehand. Additionally, the common experience their "trip" provided for them that was extremely powerful, profound and long lasting without the need for drugs going forward. Spiritual in nature, as the indigenous people have used peyote for thousands of years now, for example, to make contact with the spirit world.

All seems very promising and something I would look into if I suffered from those sorts of ailments...

For this atheist's mental health, I think it's time for me to part company with this forum to begin preparation of our BSB now. Here's hoping you and everyone else has a transcendental Sunday! Cheers.

Oh really? With psychedelic drugs? No, I haven't heard of that. It's something worth checking into. My only concern is whether insurance would cover it and if the government would ever allow it - given its absolutely hardline no exception anti-drug position. Still ...

I wish I could make contact with the spirit world - or somewhere. I've thought thousands of times that surely there has to be somewhere better than here.

My big issue, though, is quite a lot of my issues stem from environmental conditions rather than chemical imbalances. For instance, my PTSD stems from being abused by my aunt ... well, she's not my blood aunt, but the sister of my adoptive (and deceased) mother. She's still tries to abuse me and we get into some severe arguments and physical fights. She's been in Hawaii the past three years so I've been left in peace. But she came back last month so ... here we go.

Drugs haven't helped me much because, yeah, drugs can't change reality. At best, they tend to zombify me. So I feel nothing. Neither happy or sad. It's how I imagine being dead would feel like.

But thanks for the info. Have a wonderful what's left of Sunday - though by the time you see this, it'll be a different day, so ...