Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Your thoughts, if you practice one.
Set aside what you have been told, always accepted, had thought of as.
Is it internal to you, or it is external?
Is it different from the way you think of politics, economics, or sociology?
How so and why?
Do you believe it has an essential quality?
Or you would define it as how it functions, either in your own life or life in general.
Is it part of your everyday life? How so?
Please note, this is not about your religion. It is about Religion, in general. What is it?
Your thoughts, if you practice one.
Set aside what you have been told, always accepted, had thought of as.
Is it internal to you, or it is external?
Is it different from the way you think of politics, economics, or sociology?
How so and why?
Do you believe it has an essential quality?
Or you would define it as how it functions, either in your own life or life in general.
Is it part of your everyday life? How so?
Please note, this is not about your religion. It is about Religion, in general. What is it?
There are all different kinds but if you talk about the major Abrahamic ones then I think it starts with having three basic foundation stones. A belief in God and an after life, and the Heaven and hell.
This belief could be formed by various different factors. Could be the result of influences made on you by the society, environment, family friends etc during your upbringing and other life experience, AND/OR it could be the result of your own personal journey and research to have arrived to forming this faith.
So to answer your first question; it could be internal and/or it could be external - for me it’s both.
After then, there are variations among the three major Abrahamic faiths.
The philosophy that resonates with my mindset starts with a question, and that is,
“Now that you have faith in God, after life, Heaven and hell, and you have a certain time limit before you meet your creator, what to do with the life, energy, resources, intelligence and ability to choose, till my time ends?
To find the answer, you look back at your faith.
And you notice that your faith provides you with a guideline and sets boundaries for you. It provides a moral code and identifies the do’s and donts in your day to day life, and in how do you deal with people? It also provides a guidance on how to pray (which is a personal matter and we don't need to go into details here).
It’s then time for rubber to hit the road.
You try your best to live your day to day life by the guidance provided by your faith.
You WILL make mistakes but you can always try your best to makeup for your mistakes (whenever and wherever possible), repent and move on with the intention of not repeating the mistake.
God is merciful and God forgives if you are honest in your intentions and try your best.
You then reach the end of your life, and cross that line. It's then time to get your life reviewed in the court of God. This is where an absolute justice is served. There is no place to hide and no where to run.
If you have tried to live a morally cautious and a peaceful life in accord with the religious guidance then you may be at a better place.
And if you have done injustice to others, have hurt others, have schemed and deceived people, and you were a wolf in a religious cloak, then there could be serious consequences of your all your bad actions.
Now, if a religious theology does not hold you accountable for your actions and provides a no question asked, guaranteed spot in Heaven, then such theology goes out of the window for me.
Unfortunately both modern day Christianity and Judaism fall into this category.
There is no hell for Jews, and you are going straight to Heaven if you believe in Jesus to be your savior.
Those who believe in it, good for them. This philosophy simply doesn't talk to my heart.
IMO, when you believe that you could face the consequences of your bad actions REGARDLESS of being the practitioner and believer of your faith - then you inherently try to do what’s good and avoid what’s bad when it comes to your day to day interaction with people.
Here is an example and no intentions to brag.
I was at chain grocery store last night. It’s $572 Billion fortune 5 company. I wanted to buy grapes so I picked a single grape from a packet on the shelf, and tasted it to see if it’s fresh and sweet, which it was.
At the self check out, I put the grapes bag on the scale and additionally pushed the scale with my index finger to pay a little more than the weight of the bag. The intention was to pay for that single grape that I ate and it’s not accounted for.
Why did I do it? Because that’s what my inner moral code tells me to do. I got this inner reassurance and belief strongly developed by my religious guidelines.
Perhaps some other people have an even stronger belief of following morality and justice WITHOUT religious beliefs. Good for them.
So, to answer your question whether it has an essential quality?
I think, if the religious theology is something that calls of justice and accountability for ALL, and no special treatment and favors to any, then such religious theology is essential – both on personal and social level. I think it instills a sense of “Doing the right thing, even when no one is watching”.
As I usually quote, "Your religion is, what you do before and after prayers".
However, whether people follow or not follow or follow some part of such theology, is a different issue altogether.
Is it part of my everyday life?
Indeed.
It is part of my every action. The grape example above.
Is religion different from the way I think of politics, economics, or sociology?
May be to some extent there is a small common ground because religious belief could drive politics, economics and sociology of a society but Religion also deals with matters not only in this life (both social and personal), but also it tries to answer (based on faith) as to what’s after death?
Politics, economics and sociology throw a white towel in the ring when it comes to this realm of consciousness..
...I think it starts with having three basic foundation stones.
A belief in God and an after life, and the Heaven and hell.
I would not say that myself.
As we know a 'devil or angel' or a non-religious person may believe in those things.
I will speak from having been a Catholic, (following God's wishes as expressed by Jesus or the Old Testament and being baptized are givens ).
But to be part of any Religion :1. Following their ideas, rules, concepts, rituals and Precepts, period.
Examples of Precepts for Catholics and other (just) concepts dreamed up, that can change:
-having to go to confession at least once a yr,
- not eating for an hour before receiving Communion,
-going to Mass, one time a yr at Easter, at least, to be considered Catholic and receiving Communion then.
-following, supporting the Pope's 'rules'.
-supporting the church monetarily
-and many other ideas made up by those 'in charge' ---as in any Protestant religion, church or club.
I'm glad I'm past religion and don't need it. It only gets in the way of spiritual thought and activity.
This might be a crappy analogy, but spirituality would be like a living tree, and religion would be a picture of it. The imitation formed by man (picture) can never even closely approximate the real/living. But man will continue to waste time trying, and put priority on what he's created with his hands or technology. Man nearly always chooses himself and his ways over nature. And that shows up in many other areas in daily life if we look around, beyond churches / religion.
Last edited by Thoreau424; 10-26-2022 at 11:09 AM..
I want to use Miss Hepburn's post as a sort of jumping off point for expanding what a religion is.
If one is happy with his or her religion and don't try to push it onto others, that is fine. If it improves their life and doesn't affect the lives of others in any negative way...fine and dandy.
For me, I would differentiate between following a religion versus following a philosophy. And this is a topic that is often discussed in Buddhism. Buddhists in Southeast Asia often follow Buddhism as more of a religion, although I have personally talked with monks in Thailand that say that is an error (my word) on the part of those Buddhists. In those conversations, what was pointed out to me as (for example) we sat in a Buddhist temple was that (slightly paraphrased due to how long ago this discussion took place where I was lamenting the scarcity of Thai Theravada Buddhist temples near my home in the States) "Real Buddhism has nothing to do with this building, or that statue of the Lord Buddha, or those murals, or any of the other objects that you see in this temple. Everything you need to be a Buddhist is here", at which point he placed his hand on my head. This is why many Buddhists will lean toward Buddhism as a philosophy, rather than as a religion, with the latter being perceived as one where rituals are over-emphasized as compared to actual meditation. And this goes to something I have observed in Buddhist temples both in Southeast Asia and here in the States -- observing Buddhists in temples often led to two different conclusions -- some seemed to emphasize particular rituals, while others seemed to be focusing more on contemplation. Seemingly making the rituals attached to religion as compared to the contemplation attached to philosophy. And I do see this sometimes among American religionists -- an overemphasis on ritual, which I see as religion. I think back to why I stopped going to confessions when I was a young (but adult) Catholic. With rare exceptions, I confessed to Father Healy. It didn't matter how trivial the sin I was confessing was, or how serious it was (not that it was ever anything as serious as murder, or the like), the result was ALWAYS the same -- 10 Our Fathers and 10 Hail Marys. I would even talk to Catholic friends and relatives about it, and they agreed that was what he ALWAYS said. It seemed as if it had become mere ritual. As I began questioning things more I would talk to Catholic friends and ask questions like, "The Profession Of Faith, what does it mean to you?" And the typical answer was something along the lines of either a blank stare or they'd start saying the Profession. And I'd stop them and say, "No, I don't want you to repeat it by rote memory. I want you to tell me what it means to you". And they usually couldn't. Again, that to me is religious ritual. The bells that are rung during a Mass telling people to kneel...ritual. I knew some pretty bad people who went to church every week and every holy day of obligation, went to confession weekly...and still carried on their extra-marital affairs, still drank to excess, still used drugs, and so forth. But they apparently thought that the ritual made them a good catholic. Now I'm not picking on the catholic religion, because there is ritual in all religions; it's just that the rituals are far more pronounced in the catholic religion...very obvious.
For me, for me, I would rather see a person who lives the philosophy of the religion, rather than one who simply does the rituals of a religion. Buddha had a life-philosophy. I think we can say that Jesus had a life-philosophy. With Buddhism, Precepts are not seen as commandments (regardless of the English definition of the word). Precepts are seen as strategies to reduce (or eliminate) your suffering. And that -- reducing suffering -- is the primary purpose of Buddhism.
The ritualism simply doesn't impress me. For example, the catholic side of my family would abstain from meat on Fridays. They'd go out for a haddock dinner. What was the value of that abstaining since they loved haddock? There's no sacrifice. It was just a ritual that had no real meaning to them. I would have been more impressed if they had taken a poor person out for a hamburger on Fridays.
So, the bottom line -- FOR ME -- is not religious ritual and following orders. The bottom line -- FOR ME -- is living by the philosophy of a spiritual belief system.
So, the bottom line -- FOR ME -- is not religious ritual and following orders. The bottom line -- FOR ME -- is living by the philosophy of a spiritual belief system.
Excellent post.
I'm sure some will argue that the beliefs / philosophy inform the rituals and even the orders, but as you so lucidly illustrate, in actual practice, the two vary independently.
With rare exceptions, I confessed to Father Healy. It didn't matter how trivial the sin I was confessing was, or how serious it was (not that it was ever anything as serious as murder, or the like), the result was ALWAYS the same -- 10 Our Fathers and 10 Hail Marys. I would even talk to Catholic friends and relatives about it, and they agreed that was what he ALWAYS said. It seemed as if it had become mere ritual.
Sound to me as if Father Healy's own faith had long left town. The question would be what on earth kept him in the priesthood. Shame from family and friends? A tiny fear that maybe he was wrong about his loss of faith and would be punished?
Sound to me as if Father Healy's own faith had long left town. The question would be what on earth kept him in the priesthood. Shame from family and friends? A tiny fear that maybe he was wrong about his loss of faith and would be punished?
You may be right, and I'll tell you why I say that. He became very 'mechanical' in saying the mass. We used to time him. He could say a regular mass in approximately 24 minutes. And when he said, "The Mass has ended, thanks be to god", we used to laugh and say he was thanking god that the mass was over!
I do have to admit, however, that he had replaced a much beloved priest, although he went about it all wrong, and he never got a fair shake from the community. I actually felt a bit sorry for him.
Sound to me as if Father Healy's own faith had long left town. The question would be what on earth kept him in the priesthood. Shame from family and friends? A tiny fear that maybe he was wrong about his loss of faith and would be punished?
The extremely early and primitive misinterpretation of God as a "punishing" God to be feared has had a long, extremely destructive, and undeserved tenure within religion. It is long past time for us to grow up as a species and "get over it"!!!
The extremely early and primitive misinterpretation of God as a "punishing" God to be feared has had a long, extremely destructive, and undeserved tenure within religion. It is long past time for us to grow up as a species and "get over it"!!!
Every once in a while you and I agree on something. This is one of those times.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
' It is about Religion, in general. What is it?'
