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I believe we live as human beings living this life in this world of pleasure and pain in ignorance of our true nature which is eternal existence of perfect fullness. .
I think one of the argument that intrigues my interest into this topic is actually goes both ways, and that is,
First,
"How do we know that we are having a human experience"?
Perhaps a simple and straight forward answer is "our consciousness". We are able to perceive what's currently around us, the universe, in it's physical form and our place somewhere in it.
But then again, during the first 2 years of our lives, we could not perceive the universe around us, we don't have any memory of that phase, does that mean we were NOT humans then?
We don't have any memory of any experience of what we were before our births?
And the second part is,
How do we know we are having a spiritual experience or we are spiritual beings?
Biologically speaking, we don't have any memory of a state when we spirits - and scientifically speaking we don't have a formula to run to find out if we are having a spiritual experience.
Is being spiritual or having a spiritual experience, is selective method by nature or it's our or it varies from human to human where some of us feel connected to the spiritual world and others don't?
When we talk about being humans or having human experience, there is no argument in it - we have memories, we have perception so all 7 Billions agree that they are humans or having a human experience.
Why is that all 7 Billion can't agree or disagree collectively that they are having a spiritual experience or not?
Why is that all 7 Billion can't agree or disagree collectively that they are having a spiritual experience or not?
Because the relevant terms -- religion, spirituality, and particularly, god -- are ill-defined or even undefined. We end up talking past each other because we are blind men feeling things and pretty much making up explanations for those feelings. It is highly subjective territory and it is not defined by our (aided or unaided) senses, but by emotions, intuitions, and various subjective experiences.
Spirituality also represents "the undiscovered country" as Hamlet put it. The main problem with human self awareness is that we understand the story arc of our existence ends in death. No one gets out of this alive. This awareness is, so far as we know, unique in the animal kingdom -- certainly unique in the depth of understanding -- and it is, as someone said, "almost more than we can bear". So we are extremely intolerant of our own ignorance around this, and seek to arrive at firm beliefs where no supporting information really exists. So we invent the mechanism of religious faith to enable that.
It is my personal view that this is not nearly the problem that we make it out to be. All that's required is to accept who and what we are: mortal beings with a finite existence who are not owed "something more" by the gods, life, existence, the universe or what have you. One can then focus on making the most of the one life we most likely have, and the sense of dread around death evaporates. A lot of our angst about eternal life is learned helplessness programmed into us religiously, socially, and culturally from the cradle. If you can learn to step outside that and just accept life (and death) on its own terms, it's actually not a big deal. This is something most persons with a terminal medical diagnosis come to see. People are terrified of cancer and so on, but once you have it, that fear can no longer touch you and a strange serenity takes over (or usually anyway). People are terrified of living without god, but if, like me, you've had an involuntary god-ectomy, it is no longer something to fear. The sky does not fall. You are still you.
Happily, the objective to live the truly "good life" -- a life of love and service and growing contentment and wisdom -- isn't incompatible with the stated goals of religious faith. You can work to become a better actor in the world and if there is some sort of glorified / purified afterlife to come after all, then it stands to reason one is also preparing oneself for optimal existence there.
There are, of course, always people insisting you have to believe in their particular exact way or you're toast. And people who don't know themselves yet are vulnerable to letting other people define them -- as sinners, unworthy, incapable, depraved, unwise, rebellious, stubborn. But one learns not to listen to those arrogrant, deluded types and just work on the bottom line which is to be your best self. And that also is not rocket science, though people exist who try to make it so. They say it's impossible to be good without whatever it is they're selling.
I think that's obvious at our first cry!
("Uh-oh...what have I done!")
Who said: I cried when I was born....and each day I know why.
I like it!
Interestingly, i read some years ago that people who remember their birth, usually through hypnosis, report experiencing an acrid, burning smell. Oxygen.
I think one of the argument that intrigues my interest into this topic is actually goes both ways, and that is,
First,
"How do we know that we are having a human experience"?
Perhaps a simple and straight forward answer is "our consciousness". We are able to perceive what's currently around us, the universe, in it's physical form and our place somewhere in it.
But then again, during the first 2 years of our lives, we could not perceive the universe around us, we don't have any memory of that phase, does that mean we were NOT humans then?
We don't have any memory of any experience of what we were before our births?
And the second part is,
How do we know we are having a spiritual experience or we are spiritual beings?
Biologically speaking, we don't have any memory of a state when we spirits - and scientifically speaking we don't have a formula to run to find out if we are having a spiritual experience.
Is being spiritual or having a spiritual experience, is selective method by nature or it's our or it varies from human to human where some of us feel connected to the spiritual world and others don't?
When we talk about being humans or having human experience, there is no argument in it - we have memories, we have perception so all 7 Billions agree that they are humans or having a human experience.
Why is that all 7 Billion can't agree or disagree collectively that they are having a spiritual experience or not?
Moses knew he was born for a purpose and how many years went by before he saw the burning bush that was not consumed. There comes a time. The Prophet Isaiah shares the word; A smoldering flax He will not extinguish. I see that in Moses, all those years with the calling and purpose burning inside him. Till it came time for him to know and realize it. To Sheppard in fulfillment of God's word to Abraham.
You can see many times when those called tried to fulfill the calling in their own strength and might. Which served the purpose of becoming broken, which is a good thing. And prepares for the time of receiving and walking in direction from God and to not turn from it. The brokenness of David is shared in Psalm 51 and gets to the heart of it.
There is the veil of Moses and the veil in the Temple. A veil is for the purpose of unveiling in its time and to share completion and marriage to that which is presented for you in fulfillment...
...Which is nothing like the unveiling the serpent claimed to share.
Last edited by chief scum; 11-14-2022 at 07:48 AM..
Moses knew he was born for a purpose and how many years went by before he saw the burning bush that was not consumed. There comes a time. The Prophet Isaiah shares the word; A smoldering flax He will not extinguish. I see that in Moses, all those years with the calling and purpose burning inside him. Till it came time for him to know and realize it. To Sheppard in fulfillment of God's word to Abraham.
You can see many times when those called tried to fulfill the calling in their own strength and might. Which served the purpose of becoming broken, which is a good thing. And prepares for the time of receiving and walking in direction from God and to not turn from it. The brokenness of David is shared in Psalm 51 and gets to the heart of it.
There is the veil of Moses and the veil in the Temple. A veil is for the purpose of unveiling in its time and to share completion and marriage to that which is presented for you in fulfillment...
...Which is nothing like the unveiling the serpent claimed to share.
It's so interesting to me that you have the, apparently, god-given knowledge of what was in Moses' mind. Isn't that amazing.
How do believers and non-believers who consider themselves spiritual, look at this question?
I look at spirituality as temporary beings being aware of the world around us, and being aware of what we are leaving behind us for our descendants; and an awe about the world about us.
It's so interesting to me that you have the, apparently, god-given knowledge of what was in Moses' mind. Isn't that amazing.
It is in the story, when he killed the Egyptian, and when the two Israelites whose argument he tried to end came at him with that, he went out into the wilderness. It was in the heart of Moses, to see the Israelites freed.
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In ignorance until it is removed, or we get rid of it with knowledge.
