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Old 11-17-2022, 03:36 PM
 
Location: On the Edge of the Fringe
7,569 posts, read 6,018,004 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
Just to clarify, are you saying that atheists are mentally ill?

Because if you are...
I saw a lot of mental illness when I was in the church, and I see a lot of mental illness in Christians today, or people raised Christian. Of course we do get a few Atheists but not near as many as theists.

Anyone who talks to an imaginary friend whom they are convinced is real, and intervenes on their behalf with absolutely no evidence or example whatsoever , and not to mention centers their whole life and existence around this imaginary being.....even to the point of denying the self any happiness or adventure because of dogma and religious rules.... even to say that this life we live does not matter, only the life after we are dead....yeah, I would consider that mentally ill in some cases, when it becomes detrimental to one''s self, family and community.
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Old 11-17-2022, 03:37 PM
 
18,186 posts, read 16,752,951 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bootsamillion View Post
Please refer to paragraph 2, your own question "Will I be forgiven? Who knows?" "Maybe maybe not." Why would a non believer have the reasoning to ask that question, and answer it with a "maybe", unless deep down somewhere you do believe there is a 'possibility' of God. You just don't admit it.

I didn't ask if you had children because I wanted to know if you would raise them as Christians, I really was wondering if you had witnessed their birth? Miracles happen every day, everywhere. God did not fail anyone, and he never will. There are reasons (HIS will) why things happen, and HE knows the end result of everything. We lean on our friends and family for support, that's what God wants us to do in bad times. HE will carry us through all the things in our lives, good and bad. People that leave Christianity is because they want a Genie in a bottle to grant their every wish and things don't go their way so they change religions, hoping the next "idol" will. More childish than stupid, but definitely both.

So then it all falls to the definition of "miracle" whether literal or figurative. The miracle of birth you are referring to is a subjective thing. You think it's a miracle. Scientists think it's just cold hard evolution. You think the stars in the sky are miracles. Scientists think it's just cold hard astrophysics. But a literal miracle would be a body dead for 10 days suddenly reconstituting itself and coming back to life. Those kinds of miracles don't happen and never have, why? Because science has never recorded such an event or anything of that caliber. Science has the last word on what is and isn't a miracle, not theologians.



If you believe it is God carrying you across a bridge over troubled waters then it is God. There's no way a scientist can make you believe otherwise if it's firmly planted in your mind, and it sounds to me like it is. Me, I've never experienced anything that couldn't be explained by cold hard scientific fact, so I don't believe in literal miracles. But I believe in figurative "miracles" aplenty--like a woman giving birth.
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Old 11-17-2022, 03:40 PM
 
25,403 posts, read 9,676,104 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mordant View Post
Ah, the so-called Sallman's Head painting. The painting was so successful in capturing everyone's projections about Jesus that miracles have been attributed to it:

How many people knew that there's a hidden wine chalice on his temple and host on his forehead?
Even we had that picture, lol. Yep, the Anglo-Saxon Jesus.
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Old 11-17-2022, 04:52 PM
 
Location: Oklahoma
17,618 posts, read 13,433,465 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bootsamillion View Post
Miracles happen every day, everywhere. God did not fail anyone, and he never will. There are reasons (HIS will) why things happen, and HE knows the end result of everything. We lean on our friends and family for support, that's what God wants us to do in bad times. HE will carry us through all the things in our lives, good and bad. People that leave Christianity is because they want a Genie in a bottle to grant their every wish and things don't go their way so they change religions, hoping the next "idol" will. More childish than stupid, but definitely both.
First:

Things that happen "everyday" and "everywhere" are NOT miracles. And that is by the very definition of "miracle".

Secondly, it's not so much blaming God for "failing" anyone as it is recognizing that randomly bad things happen to people in a random fashion.

Most people on this board have left Christianity because they see no evidence of a "divine hand" guiding anything. We realize that people like yourself see this "divine hand" all over the place. We have come to a different conclusion than you have based on how we interpret what we see and don't see. If that is childish and stupid. So be it. I'm not going to believe something in something the evidence tells me doesn't exist. And evidence tells me that the God you believe in is not a real entity.

But as an exercise... feel free to report the next thing you see as a "miracle".
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Old 11-17-2022, 05:15 PM
 
Location: Northeastern US
19,727 posts, read 13,268,032 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
So then it all falls to the definition of "miracle" whether literal or figurative. The miracle of birth you are referring to is a subjective thing. You think it's a miracle. Scientists think it's just cold hard evolution.
Well it's really a false equivalency. A miracle is an intervention in the laws of physics and/or nature to cause something outside the causal chain to happen. Turning water into wine, raising the dead, healing the sick.

Childbirth, while a terrific thing, is a perfectly ordinary and natural event. No natural laws are broken or bent to make it happen.

Sometime in July 1956 my parents were intimate, and as a result I was born in March 1957. Cause and effect.

So to call it a miracle is to take poetic license, not to state an actual fact.
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Old 11-17-2022, 05:34 PM
 
63,388 posts, read 39,647,364 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eddie gein View Post
First:

Things that happen "everyday" and "everywhere" are NOT miracles. And that is by the very definition of "miracle".

Secondly, it's not so much blaming God for "failing" anyone as it is recognizing that randomly bad things happen to people in a random fashion.

Most people on this board have left Christianity because they see no evidence of a "divine hand" guiding anything. We realize that people like yourself see this "divine hand" all over the place. We have come to a different conclusion than you have based on how we interpret what we see and don't see. If that is childish and stupid. So be it. I'm not going to believe something in something the evidence tells me doesn't exist. And evidence tells me that the God you believe in is not a real entity.

But as an exercise... feel free to report the next thing you see as a "miracle".
The simple truth is that none of us know jack about our Creator, but there is little doubt our Creator EXISTS. That is the bottom line because our God is at the very least, our Creator! We just do not and seem not to be able to know who or what our Creator IS! That leaves us to assume an answer, gather what information we can discover about it, and engage in speculation about it. All human speculation about our Creator is just that! Even for Christians, Jesus acknowledged that "We know not what we do" when it comes to God.
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Old 11-17-2022, 06:08 PM
 
18,186 posts, read 16,752,951 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
The simple truth is that none of us know jack about our Creator, but there is little doubt our Creator EXISTS. That is the bottom line because our God is at the very least, our Creator! We just do not and seem not to be able to know who or what our Creator IS! That leaves us to assume an answer, gather what information we can discover about it, and engage in speculation about it. All human speculation about our Creator is just that! Even for Christians, Jesus acknowledged that "We know not what we do" when it comes to God.

What kind of a God I wonder keeps himself completely unknown to humans. If you're going to argue he reveals himself to us every day I would say the vast majority of people who are atheist, agnostics or nones will swear they have never seen or experienced anything resembling a revelation of a supernatural entity. If you're going to say our eyes are closed I would say it is Christians who have dreamed up some really foolish theories of God revealing himself. A real God wouldn't leave the vast majority of mankind including science oblivious to his presence, don't you think, Mystic?
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Old 11-17-2022, 06:34 PM
 
63,388 posts, read 39,647,364 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
What kind of a God I wonder keeps himself completely unknown to humans. If you're going to argue he reveals himself to us every day I would say the vast majority of people who are atheist, agnostics or nones will swear they have never seen or experienced anything resembling a revelation of a supernatural entity. If you're going to say our eyes are closed I would say it is Christians who have dreamed up some really foolish theories of God revealing himself. A real God wouldn't leave the vast majority of mankind including science oblivious to his presence, don't you think, Mystic?
Don'y you see that it is those specualtions you have been indoctrinateds with that cause you to think about God as you do. How do we know God has any choice in how He communicates with us. If you were a father, how well could you communicate with your child while it was in its mother's womb?? For all I can tell, we are in a spiritual "womb" and will meet God when we are "born again" as Spirits AFTER our physical death. Take what Jesus said to us as His dying words, Thrill, "We know not what we do."
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Old 11-17-2022, 08:18 PM
 
18,186 posts, read 16,752,951 times
Reputation: 7418
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Don'y you see that it is those specualtions you have been indoctrinateds with that cause you to think about God as you do. How do we know God has any choice in how He communicates with us. If you were a father, how well could you communicate with your child while it was in its mother's womb?? For all I can tell, we are in a spiritual "womb" and will meet God when we are "born again" as Spirits AFTER our physical death. Take what Jesus said to us as His dying words, Thrill, "We know not what we do."

Man, Mystic you are way WAY out there. I don't know what Jesus imparted to you on that visit you paid him but did he actually suggest that God has no control over how he communicates with us--I mean the God who was powerful enough to created a hundred trillion galaxies?????????
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Old 11-17-2022, 10:09 PM
 
63,388 posts, read 39,647,364 times
Reputation: 7777
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
Man, Mystic you are way WAY out there. I don't know what Jesus imparted to you on that visit you paid him but did he actually suggest that God has no control over how he communicates with us--I mean the God who was powerful enough to create a hundred trillion galaxies?????????
You mean the God who is comprised of a hundred trillion galaxies or is infinite? How much of the hundred trillion cells of your body that you are comprised of do you have control over, Thrill?
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