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Old 12-09-2022, 01:32 PM
 
18,183 posts, read 16,747,601 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hayle White View Post
How do you know this? Romans 9:3 Says the Christian God loved Jacob and hated Esau. How do you determine whom the God loves?

See what I mean? Even the Christians can't agree among themselves who or what God is. Why bother to get involved in any of it?
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Old 12-09-2022, 01:35 PM
 
412 posts, read 134,235 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PHL10 View Post
Paul is quoting Malachi so your question doesn't really make sense - if you read all of Chapter 9, you will see where Paul is going and is where is anguish is coming from. There are many difficult/confusing/seemingly contradictive parts of the Bible. Theologians for the last 2,000 and some of the smartest people to walk the planet have been aware of them and there are commentaries easily found on the internet. You think you’re the first one to discover a difficult saying in scripture?
No. It's King James' version of the acceptable scriptures (scribes' writings), and I think many try to twist scriptures to fit their personal beliefs.
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Old 12-09-2022, 04:09 PM
Status: "A solution in search of a problem" (set 8 days ago)
 
Location: New York Area
34,378 posts, read 16,502,517 times
Reputation: 29531
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unsettomati View Post
The way certain theists beclown themselves by perceiving deep and profound meaning on the enumeration of the modern Western calendar (2023! God!) while simultaneously insisting on the complete irrelevance of the names of the English days of the week (Thursday! Wednesday! Totally not Thor or Odin at all!) is always entertaining.
I could not agree more. I don't know why Christianity doesn't have more pride in its forebears or contributions from pagan societies whose customs they absorbed.
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Old 12-09-2022, 06:01 PM
 
Location: Type 0.73 Kardashev
11,110 posts, read 9,727,554 times
Reputation: 40150
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unsettomati View Post
The way certain theists beclown themselves by perceiving deep and profound meaning on the enumeration of the modern Western calendar (2023! God!) while simultaneously insisting on the complete irrelevance of the names of the English days of the week (Thursday! Wednesday! Totally not Thor or Odin at all!) is always entertaining.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GldnRule View Post
It is common knowledge that the calender year has to do with the birth of Jesus, and the days of the week are coined after some celestial things (Sun & Moon) and mythological representative God entities (as you noted).
Few think otherwise.
Now...which ones they put credence in or embrace, is another issue.
But most all are aware of the base representation of the names.
Though...some don't even know that. Not that it matters.
Let's try this again. Maybe you can have someone explain this very simple point that eludes you (or which you're just pretending not to see).

You're putting great weight on the fact that the Western calendar is based on the central figure in Christianity. You think this should conjure great reflection in those who use it.

By that logic - your logic - using the English days of the week, all of which are pagan in origin, should engender the same deep thinking. Yet, in a very predictable display of hypocrisy (which, let's be honest, is on-brand for both you specifically as well as Christianity in general) you want to blithely dismiss any expectations for reverence for the method of timekeeping with pagan overtones while simultaneously insisting that reverence flow from using a method of timekeeping with Christian overtones, regardless of whether or not one is a believer.

Puerile nonsense.
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Old 12-09-2022, 07:38 PM
 
1,440 posts, read 464,145 times
Reputation: 477
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unsettomati View Post
Let's try this again. Maybe you can have someone explain this very simple point that eludes you (or which you're just pretending not to see).

You're putting great weight on the fact that the Western calendar is based on the central figure in Christianity. You think this should conjure great reflection in those who use it.

By that logic - your logic - using the English days of the week, all of which are pagan in origin, should engender the same deep thinking. Yet, in a very predictable display of hypocrisy (which, let's be honest, is on-brand for both you specifically as well as Christianity in general) you want to blithely dismiss any expectations for reverence for the method of timekeeping with pagan overtones while simultaneously insisting that reverence flow from using a method of timekeeping with Christian overtones, regardless of whether or not one is a believer.

Puerile nonsense.
You cannot create time from within time. Who do you suppose owns time?

Of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
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Old 12-09-2022, 08:08 PM
 
Location: NSW
3,739 posts, read 2,947,274 times
Reputation: 1346
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hayle White View Post
No. It's King James' version of the acceptable scriptures (scribes' writings), and I think many try to twist scriptures to fit their personal beliefs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
See what I mean? Even the Christians can't agree among themselves who or what God is. Why bother to get involved in any of it?
Well this is true.
There are different versions of the bible.
Evangelical Protestants will try to present the KJV as the only true, unadulterated and untampered with version.
Other groups, like the Church of Christ (Restoration Movement), and it’s offshoots like the ICOC, have another.
JWs have their own version, the New World Translation, and then the LDS also have the Book of Mormon.
Of course Catholics have their own version too - regarded as apostate and heretical to Evangelicals.
Evangelicals and SDAs are also obsessed that the Pope and Rome, is trying to garner one world religion! :

https://www.christianity.com/wiki/en...mes.html?amp=1

So yeah, it’s a case of “never the twain shall meet”, across much of Christianity.
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Old 12-09-2022, 08:40 PM
Status: "I'm turquoise happy!" (set 19 days ago)
 
Location: The New England part of Ohio
23,860 posts, read 32,125,181 times
Reputation: 67698
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnywhereElse View Post
I left Christianity, but not God. God is not exclusive to Christianity, but it seems many people feel like that is the situation. I spend a lot of time reading about different faiths, and historical data, and then made my decision that I am very much at peace with. To me, that is the key, the belief that one has that brings them peace is the correct one. So many people are unsettled in their faith, and are very likely to strike out with anger against those that don't share their belief(s). When you have found your "answer" to faith, nothing compares to the peace that you have.
Yes. All good points and you aren't alone. I wasn't brought up to view people who were not my religion - now Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, (which. despite its name, is not Evangelical in the way most people think of today, and not conservative) - and I never thought that we were "the one true church" or that everyone who was not a member was "hell bound".

While I am still a member of a Lutheran church, I attend infrequently. Maybe once a month. Christmas, which is beautiful, and Easter. These are more traditions, than religious events. I raised two kids in that church, to provide them with a spiritual identity, faith and focus. However, for several years we lived in a place with no ELCA church, and we attended an Episcopal church, which is quite close.

Since they are grown, I've become more "experimental". I have always been spiritual outside of Christianity. In the past decade I have been interested in other forms of spirituality - mainly, Paganism, and Spiritualism. I visit Lilydale NY every summer and I take classes and workshops there. Since I have abilities, I have contemplated becoming a registered medium in the Spiritualist church.

Paganism is a natural to me. I have been reading about it since I was a child. Early on, I noticed the huge similarity between liturgical Christianity and pagan beliefs.

Since I am from a Northern European background, I feel drawn to the practices of my ancestors. Paganism or Witchcraft.

I don't think there is an "answer" for everyone. I think the path of a seeker is quite naturally, without an earthly end. Your reading, and the knowledge gleaned, will not have an end in this lifetime. I see it as an ongoing process with unexpected twists and turns each bringing their own epiphany, if you will.

People who think they have found all of the answers are usually narrowminded and lacking in intellectual curiosity - or they are cult members.

As for myself, I have no reason to reject Christianity, or to cut myself off completely from it's teachings completely, although I know that many in my church would not agree with my spiritual practices. I don't care. I don't answer to them.
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Old 12-09-2022, 09:06 PM
 
18,183 posts, read 16,747,601 times
Reputation: 7416
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derek41 View Post
Well this is true.
There are different versions of the bible.
Evangelical Protestants will try to present the KJV as the only true, unadulterated and untampered with version.
Other groups, like the Church of Christ (Restoration Movement), and it’s offshoots like the ICOC, have another.
JWs have their own version, the New World Translation, and then the LDS also have the Book of Mormon.
Of course Catholics have their own version too - regarded as apostate and heretical to Evangelicals.
Evangelicals and SDAs are also obsessed that the Pope and Rome, is trying to garner one world religion! :

https://www.christianity.com/wiki/en...mes.html?amp=1

So yeah, it’s a case of “never the twain shall meet”, across much of Christianity.

And we're supposed to believe the Christian god is the one true God when he can't even keep his own people on the same page???
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Old 12-10-2022, 12:08 AM
 
12,595 posts, read 6,603,862 times
Reputation: 1350
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unsettomati View Post
Let's try this again. Maybe you can have someone explain this very simple point that eludes you (or which you're just pretending not to see).

You're putting great weight on the fact that the Western calendar is based on the central figure in Christianity. You think this should conjure great reflection in those who use it.

By that logic - your logic - using the English days of the week, all of which are pagan in origin, should engender the same deep thinking. Yet, in a very predictable display of hypocrisy (which, let's be honest, is on-brand for both you specifically as well as Christianity in general) you want to blithely dismiss any expectations for reverence for the method of timekeeping with pagan overtones while simultaneously insisting that reverence flow from using a method of timekeeping with Christian overtones, regardless of whether or not one is a believer.

Puerile nonsense.
<<cut>>

First...I'm not Christian...I'm Pantheist. Though I have no problem whatsoever with Christianity, or any other Theological ideas and/or Spiritual views anyone holds.

Where you really mess-up, is your failure to understand that what is used as the basis for determining the marking of time overall (what "year" it is), is so much more significant than just the names given to the days of a week.
Three days are even named using celestial bodies as a basis....Sun, Moon, Saturn. The rest after a selection of Norse God Entities.

Though the influence of those Gods (as well as those associated with the Months) should certainly be noted, as applied. And I never said or suggested that it shouldn't be...nor did it "elude me".
Where did you get that from?

Theistic concepts have been, and are, incredibly influential.

Thus...your argument that supposedly uses "my logic" as a premise to determine "a display of hypocrisy" and a "blith dismissal of any expectations of reverence" for some of those lesser influence factors, is a failure.

If fact...every time you note the days of the week, the months of the year, or anything that has been influenced by Theistic Concepts...make sure you consider and display the proper respect. <<cut>>

Last edited by mensaguy; 12-11-2022 at 07:11 AM.. Reason: You can stop insulting atheists now.
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Old 12-10-2022, 12:19 AM
 
Location: NSW
3,739 posts, read 2,947,274 times
Reputation: 1346
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
And we're supposed to believe the Christian god is the one true God when he can't even keep his own people on the same page???
Well it’s a big problem.
I often get Shadow- Banned on YouTube, when arguing with other Christians.
The likes of Living Waters, don’t like any challenges to Evangelical Christianity.


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZesJt_8JBIg
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