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a. i don't take any post seriously that uses the word "woo."
b. because it demonstrates an inability to communicate concisely.
c. and the use of pejoratives is neither effective nor rational communication.
d. knowing the difference between facts, and opinions views beliefs interpretations has nothing to do with "berating" or "insults." any more than knowing the difference between cars and fruit. a person knows the difference, or they don't.
Sorry about the "woo" comment but I was trying to be concise. The bold is unacceptable. I am trying to be reasonable, but you are way too extreme in your views of "Facts." WHAT do YOU consider to be a FACT about our species' spiritual past held by anyone that would NOT be subject to your rejection as "opinions, views, beliefs, interpretations," or whatever??? Be honest (as you usually are). Is it only what Tzaph considers to be fact???
Sorry about the "woo" comment but I was trying to be concise. The bold is unacceptable. I am trying to be reasonable, but you are way too extreme in your views of "Facts." WHAT do YOU consider to be a FACT about our species' spiritual past held by anyone that would NOT be subject to your rejection as "opinions, views, beliefs, interpretations," or whatever??? Be honest (as you usually are). Is it only what Tzaph considers to be fact???
there is nothing "extreme" about knowing how to differentiate between fact, and opinions views beliefs.
regardless of the topic under discussion
Tallahassee is the capital of Florida in 2022 is a fact. Tallahassee was more spiritual in the past than it is now, is not a fact. It is an opinion view belief interpretation.
set religion and spirituality aside for a moment.
how do you identify what is a fact? simple question
how is a fact different from an opinion view belief interpretation? another simple question.
Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 02-05-2023 at 01:35 PM..
Sorry about the "woo" comment but I was trying to be concise. The bold is unacceptable. I am trying to be reasonable, but you are way too extreme in your views of "Facts." WHAT do YOU consider to be a FACT about our species' spiritual past held by anyone that would NOT be subject to your rejection as "opinions, views, beliefs, interpretations," or whatever??? Be honest (as you usually are). Is it only what Tzaph considers to be fact???
the question in bold above is an interesting one. it could be its own thread topic, and see what responses are offered by readers on "What do you consider to be a FACT about our species' spiritual past held by anyone that would NOT be considered as opinions, views, beliefs, interpretations"
for me answering that question, i don't think that humanity is uniform in where it is spiritually in the present, so then also, no, humanity is not uniform where it was spiritually in the past either. "spiritual" is subjective so i don't see how there can be any facts related to spirituality since it can not be weighed, measured, calculated, or categorized. my view generally is that in the past people were far MORE connected to spirituality than they are in the present.
i don't think there are any facts about "humanity's spiritual past," except that humanity has always had in every culture and in every place on the globe, an expression of the sacred and spirituality.
the question in bold above is an interesting one. it could be its own thread topic, and see what responses are offered by readers on "What do you consider to be a FACT about our species' spiritual past held by anyone that would NOT be considered as opinions, views, beliefs, interpretations"
for me answering that question, i don't think that humanity is uniform in where it is spiritually in the present, so then also, no, humanity is not uniform where it was spiritually in the past either. "spiritual" is subjective so i don't see how there can be any facts related to spirituality since it can not be weighed, measured, calculated, or categorized. my view generally is that in the past people were far MORE connected to spirituality than they are in the present.
i don't think there are any facts about "humanity's spiritual past," except that humanity has always had in every culture and in every place on the globe, an expression of the sacred and spirituality.
Thank you. I now understand where you are coming from. It still strikes me as unfair and antagonistic to take offense at anyone's sincerely held beliefs, views, interpretations, or opinions about that based on extant recordings and descriptions of their beliefs and practices.
Thank you. I now understand where you are coming from. It still strikes me as unfair and antagonistic to take offense at anyone's sincerely held beliefs, views, interpretations, or opinions about that based on extant recordings and descriptions of their beliefs and practices.
there are sincerely held views and beliefs which are yes offensive. for instance those beliefs that whites are superior over other races, that males are superior over females, that Nazi Germany is superior to the rest of the world, and that Crstnity is superior to other religions. Those sincerely held beliefs are offensive.
Hoping that you can see how beliefs can be sincerely held, but yes still be utterly offensive.
Thank you. I now understand where you are coming from. It still strikes me as unfair and antagonistic to take offense at anyone's sincerely held beliefs, views, interpretations, or opinions about that based on extant recordings and descriptions of their beliefs and practices.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel
there are sincerely held views and beliefs which are yes offensive. for instance, those beliefs that whites are superior over other races, that males are superior over females, that Nazi Germany is superior to the rest of the world, and that Crstnity is superior to other religions. Those sincerely held beliefs are offensive.
Hoping that you can see how beliefs can be sincerely held, but yes still be utterly offensive.
Be reasonable, Tzaph. Those examples are not relevant or remotely in dispute here! My belief that our PRIMITIVE ancestors held spiritually immature, ignorant, and barbaric beliefs and practices, (such as throwing babies into fires, stoning people to death, or taking your son up the mountain to sacrifice Him to please God) IS apparently in dispute and offensive! Your concern that there is no uniformity across any given generation is irrelevant to the generic LEVEL of spiritual ignorance and immaturity that existed in those eras relative to today.
Be reasonable, Tzaph. Those examples are not relevant or remotely in dispute here! My belief that our PRIMITIVE ancestors held spiritually immature, ignorant, and barbaric beliefs and practices, (such as throwing babies into fires, stoning people to death, or taking your son up the mountain to sacrifice Him to please God) IS apparently in dispute and offensive! Your concern that there is no uniformity across any given generation is irrelevant to the generic LEVEL of spiritual ignorance and immaturity that existed in those eras relative to today.
they are very relevant examples because they are claims to superiority and claims of supremacy which lead to atrocities.
there are views expressed in your posts which have the same tone of supremacy and superiority.
and they are just as offensive.
the question that comes to mind is why anyone is obsessed with supremacy in the first place. character development (which is an area which paths of religion and spirituality focus on) is about self-improvement. it is not focused on being better than others. that is why so many paths have humbleness as a key element and cornerstone. claims of supremacy and superiority are the antithesis of humbleness. and thus are the antithesis of character development, self-improvement, and many paths of religion and spirituality.
Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 02-05-2023 at 05:20 PM..
Be reasonable, Tzaph. Those examples are not relevant or remotely in dispute here! My belief that our PRIMITIVE ancestors held spiritually immature, ignorant, and barbaric beliefs and practices, (such as throwing babies into fires, stoning people to death, or taking your son up the mountain to sacrifice Him to please God) IS apparently in dispute and offensive! Your concern that there is no uniformity across any given generation is irrelevant to the generic LEVEL of spiritual ignorance and immaturity that existed in those eras relative to today.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel
they are very relevant examples because they are claims to superiority and claims of supremacy which lead to atrocities.
there are views expressed in your posts which have the same tone of supremacy and superiority.
and they are just as offensive.
the question that comes to mind is why anyone is obsessed with supremacy in the first place. character development (which is what paths of religion and spirituality focus on) is about self-improvement. it is not focused on being better than others. that is why so many paths have humbleness as a key element and cornerstone. claims of supremacy and superiority are the antithesis of humbleness. and thus are the antithesis of character development, self-improvement and many paths of religion and spirituality.
::Sigh:: Throwing babies into fires, stoning people to death, and sacrificing your own son to please God ARE ATROCITIES! If we cannot agree that they are primitive, barbaric, and spiritually immature beliefs and practices, humanity has no hope whatsoever!!!
If you are referring to my remarks about being a polymath, that is a FACT whatever you wish to think about it. I have an intellect that is far above normal and that is also a FACT. None of that fosters any sense of supremacy or superiority in me as you wish to characterize it.
::Sigh:: Throwing babies into fires, stoning people to death, and sacrificing your own son to please God ARE ATROCITIES! If we cannot agree that they are primitive, barbaric, and spiritually immature beliefs and practices, humanity has no hope whatsoever!!!
If you are referring to my remarks about being a polymath, that is a FACT whatever you wish to think about it. I have an intellect that is far above normal and that is also a FACT. None of that fosters any sense of supremacy or superiority in me as you wish to characterize it.
Sometimes I think that perhaps what you want to do is whitewash christianity.
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