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let's talk about the ideas and the views,
not the people posting
it is an excellent discussion when that happens.
"Awareness is primordial; it is the original state, beginning-less, endless, uncaused, unsupported, without parts, without change.
Consciousness is on contact, a reflection against a surface, a state of duality. There can be no consciousness without awareness, but there can be awareness without consciousness, as in deep sleep. Awareness is absolute, consciousness is relative to its content; consciousness is always of something. Consciousness is partial and changeful, awareness is total, changeless, calm and silent. And it is the common matrix of every experience.”
~ Nisargadatta Maharaj (a non-dualist)what part of this expressed below is problematic for you?
are you seeing the distinction between awareness (original state, without parts) and consciousness (in relation to something else). You yourself in post #704 described it similarly, 'status that "something" has about "something" '
Perhaps, but sometimes the personalities and the way of people gets to be a little distracting or attention-getting. Maybe we can do both, but I'm all for the better discussion in any case. "An excellent" discussion is a tall order in this forum, but yes. Good for you...
As long as anyone can make claims like these, by way of little more than say so, I'm not sure what the "ground rules" might be with respect to how anyone should judge these claims, but I dare say Mystic's claims can't be judged any better or worse than any others. When the criteria is simply mere say so and whatever anyone might like to believe, justification becomes irrelevant. What is the truth as well. At least in terms of how to establish what is the truth. The universal truth for all of us.
As for what is awareness and/or consciousness, I'm not sure I've ever known people to spend so much time trying to be "aware" about what is consciousness and what is not. Not sure how "aware" we are when we're in a deep sleep either, but my wife seems to think I'm often not very aware of what's going on when I'm in a deep sleep. Seems I'm not aware when I snore every now and then either...
i am sorry you don’t get as many praises as you would like. i do like to show my appreciation for posts that are close to my way of thinking, interesting, and informative regardless of the poster. i appreciate the time and effort they took to post. it is true there are a few posters whose posts I rarely, almost never, praise. i often do not even read them. my choice.
There you go again...
I get plenty enough praise to my satisfaction. Thank you. Especially since I'm not looking for any, but I get plenty enough anyway for whatever reasons. Why do you suggest otherwise I wonder?
What you do and how you do it is your choice. Of course. I've simply noted an obvious inclination of yours along those lines. You and Tzap. A bit of "tag teaming" above the average. That's all. There are worse things that commonly go on in this forum.
Nothing we've all not come to well expect from "the usual suspects" by now...
I get plenty enough praise to my satisfaction. Thank you. Especially since I'm not looking for any, but I get plenty enough anyway for whatever reasons. Why do you suggest otherwise I wonder?
What you do and how you do it is your choice. Of course. I've simply noted an obvious inclination of yours along those lines. You and Tzap. A bit of "tag teaming" above the average. That's all. There are worse things that commonly go on in this forum.
Nothing we've all not come to well expect from "the usual suspects" by now...
Tzaph contributes valuable and thoughtful contributions. i particularly appreciate her attention to details of the links that are posted here. there is a lot of misinformation online and it is easy to run with it. i am careful about what I read on the internet and it’s validity. Tzaph makes the effort to cull the information and corrects inaccuracies and improper claims.
oddly she gets attacked for this. so i would like to show my support and appreciation so she continues to do so. i don’t really care what you think of it or call it.
there are a few posters whose posts are always a pleasure to read and i say it. there are a few that are just a pain. i just avoid them.
Back to the original post, when my children were young we wanted them to have some exposure to organized religion. Not to be brainwashed with some particular crap, or proselytizing from people whose life is consumed with religious fantasy, but something that provided the basics. We found the Unitarian church, which interestingly, was populated by people who, not only being quite smart and educated, but in many cases were cast-offs from more formal church experiences. Particularly, the catholic and jewish experience, where there was just "too much church" for them. Maybe it was the "rules" or the constant request for money, or some other issue, but these folks had migrated to the Unitarian Church where they found a level of religion, a great deal of camaraderie, and group of serious likeminded people.
It was clear that this group wasn't drinking the cool aid about Jesus, or any other figure. but wanted to practice religion in their own way without the interference of a generally hypocritic (think southern Baptists, for example) group of people who had no evidence, outside of their bible, that Christianity was anything more than a fantasy league that was doing quite well for the people at the top, and not so much for the people at the bottom who had not much more than, in reality, wishful thinking.
There are "believers" out there. But there are also many people who after thoughtful consideration, realized that such "teachings" have no basis in fact.
To each their own. As long as they keep it that way. I don't care about your sex life, your politics, and your religion. Do as you wish for any of the above. Just don't come trying to tell me that yours is the "best" path for me to follow. We'll get along fine, in fact can become good friends, if you keep the proselytizing to yourself.
Back to the original post, when my children were young we wanted them to have some exposure to organized religion. Not to be brainwashed with some particular crap, or proselytizing from people whose life is consumed with religious fantasy, but something that provided the basics. We found the Unitarian church, which interestingly, was populated by people who, not only being quite smart and educated, but in many cases were cast-offs from more formal church experiences. Particularly, the catholic and jewish experience, where there was just "too much church" for them. Maybe it was the "rules" or the constant request for money, or some other issue, but these folks had migrated to the Unitarian Church where they found a level of religion, a great deal of camaraderie, and group of serious likeminded people.
It was clear that this group wasn't drinking the cool aid about Jesus, or any other figure. but wanted to practice religion in their own way without the interference of a generally hypocritic (think southern Baptists, for example) group of people who had no evidence, outside of their bible, that Christianity was anything more than a fantasy league that was doing quite well for the people at the top, and not so much for the people at the bottom who had not much more than, in reality, wishful thinking.
There are "believers" out there. But there are also many people who after thoughtful consideration, realized that such "teachings" have no basis in fact.
To each their own. As long as they keep it that way. I don't care about your sex life, your politics, and your religion. Do as you wish for any of the above. Just don't come trying to tell me that yours is the "best" path for me to follow. We'll get along fine, in fact can become good friends, if you keep the proselytizing to yourself.
We are of like mind except for the part about wanting our children to have some exposure to organized religion...
I never once felt our children would benefit from exposure to organized religion, and I never promoted it, but at the same time I always felt there was little chance they wouldn't be exposed to organized religion sooner or later in their lives regardless what I did or didn't do along those lines. My preference was for them to experience religion on their own without any parental influence. For them to decide on their own the best path for them.
Part of my inclinations along those lines are because of the "no basis in fact" you mention. Also because, well, as I've explained a little more thoroughly by way of My Ten Truths. (Not to mention I was raised a Catholic. Now an atheist). Also along the lines of yet another thread about "Why Not Oppose War Actions More?" Or how best to promote peace...
Perhaps, but sometimes the personalities and the way of people gets to be a little distracting or attention-getting. Maybe we can do both, but I'm all for the better discussion in any case. "An excellent" discussion is a tall order in this forum, but yes. Good for you...
As long as anyone can make claims like these, by way of little more than say so, I'm not sure what the "ground rules" might be with respect to how anyone should judge these claims, but I dare say Mystic's claims can't be judged any better or worse than any others. When the criteria is simply mere say so and whatever anyone might like to believe, justification becomes irrelevant. What is the truth as well. At least in terms of how to establish what is the truth. The universal truth for all of us.
As for what is awareness and/or consciousness, I'm not sure I've ever known people to spend so much time trying to be "aware" about what is consciousness and what is not. Not sure how "aware" we are when we're in a deep sleep either, but my wife seems to think I'm often not very aware of what's going on when I'm in a deep sleep. Seems I'm not aware when I snore every now and then either...
there is no "universal truth for all of us."
So there is nothing to establish in that regard.
let's talk about the ideas and the views,
not the people posting
it is an excellent discussion when that happens.
what part of this expressed below is problematic for you? are you seeing the distinction between awareness (original state, without parts) and consciousness (in relation to something else). You yourself in post #704 described it similarly, 'states that "something" has about "something" '
No, I see no distinction between them. That is the part that is irrational. Pretending that awareness (as an attribute of consciousness) can in any way exist devoid of consciousness is like pretending wetness can exist without water. Your issue seems to be wanting the attributes of consciousness to be fundamental to Reality without consciousness BEING the fundamental basis of Reality as I believe. A conscious Reality would have to be considered God by any reasoning or logic.
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