Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 12-19-2022, 10:11 AM
 
29,540 posts, read 9,704,508 times
Reputation: 3467

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by cb2008 View Post
I would not describe Sinead O’Connor preachy. She spoke out against what she saw as abuse. She was abused as well. Any speech is political. Songs, poetry, literature, art are all speech and they all are political.
"Don't shoot the messenger..."

I tend to agree with you, but a lot of people are turned off by artists who introduce politics into their performances. I have a friend who won't even watch the Academy Awards anymore, because actors using that platform to promote their political views rubs him way the hell the wrong way. I'm not one of those people.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 12-19-2022, 11:00 AM
 
Location: North by Northwest
9,327 posts, read 12,997,648 times
Reputation: 6174
Quote:
Originally Posted by cb2008 View Post
Any speech is political. Songs, poetry, literature, art are all speech and they all are political.
That depends on the speech, song, poetry, literature, and art in question.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-19-2022, 11:45 AM
 
15,950 posts, read 7,012,752 times
Reputation: 8543
Quote:
Originally Posted by LearnMe View Post
"Don't shoot the messenger..."

I tend to agree with you, but a lot of people are turned off by artists who introduce politics into their performances. I have a friend who won't even watch the Academy Awards anymore, because actors using that platform to promote their political views rubs him way the hell the wrong way. I'm not one of those people.
I get that Learn Me.
I find it abominable that so called fans think of artists, and athletes, as their personal entertainers and are not people who also are entitled to their personal life, opinion, and to the free expression of it. The way American capitalism, with a complicit media, can silence people to oblivion is shocking. It should concern all of us.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-20-2022, 10:43 AM
 
29,540 posts, read 9,704,508 times
Reputation: 3467
Quote:
Originally Posted by cb2008 View Post
I get that Learn Me.
I find it abominable that so called fans think of artists, and athletes, as their personal entertainers and are not people who also are entitled to their personal life, opinion, and to the free expression of it. The way American capitalism, with a complicit media, can silence people to oblivion is shocking. It should concern all of us.
As with all things, so much depends on time and place, context, perspective. The message and the messenger. Just for starters...

On the one hand I can well understand and appreciate how somebody might pay good money and take the time to attend a performance strictly for the purpose of enjoying the show. The music for example. Then to find out the performer wants to convey some message about something important to them but not necessarily for everyone in the audience, who are considered a "captive audience" at that point. Or maybe they even generally agree with the message, but they are not there to hear political opinion. They are there to hear music. Especially if the message is about something some in the audience don't necessarily agree with. No doubt you might remember the Dixie Chicks controversy for example.

All to say, okay with some. Not so okay with others.

Reminds me a bit about the debate related to when it's right or wrong to impose a prayer or religious observance in a setting that includes others who are not necessarily religious. In a public setting for example. Okay with some. Tends to rub those with differing views and opinions the wrong way. Either a little or a lot.

At the same time I'm reminded of something I remember Bono (from U2) saying in an interview. (Speaking of Ireland). I have to paraphrase. I don't remember the exact quote perfectly well, but it went something like this, "don't just use your fame to get a good table at a restaurant."

Of course Bono is quite the humanitarian activist and I've been to a U2 concert. Coming to think of it, despite Bono's strong convictions and off-stage humanitarian efforts, all we got at the concert was U2 music. No speeches or lectures. I suspect most of the audience preferred it that way. Even if sympathetic to any of Bono's many worthy causes. Was a great show in any case.

Last edited by LearnMe; 12-20-2022 at 11:58 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-20-2022, 10:46 AM
 
29,540 posts, read 9,704,508 times
Reputation: 3467
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElijahAstin View Post
That depends on the speech, song, poetry, literature, and art in question.
Yes, and depends a lot.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-20-2022, 11:58 AM
 
15,950 posts, read 7,012,752 times
Reputation: 8543
Quote:
Originally Posted by LearnMe View Post
As with all things, so much depends on time and place, context, perspective. The message and the messenger. Just for starters...
.
For sure, some feel that way and feel very strongly about their truths and facts. But that kind of conditional acceptance of the right to expression of free speech is neither truth nor facts. Expression of art is what the artist deems it is, not the spectator. If so it is no longer art, it is merely commodity. As you stated about Bono, artists have a big voice and they do have a responsibility to speak their truth. Many of Sinead’s fans have experienced abuse themselves.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-20-2022, 12:09 PM
 
29,540 posts, read 9,704,508 times
Reputation: 3467
Quote:
Originally Posted by cb2008 View Post
For sure, some feel that way and feel very strongly about their truths and facts. But that kind of conditional acceptance of the right to expression of free speech is neither truth nor facts. Expression of art is what the artist deems it is, not the spectator. If so it is no longer art, it is merely commodity. As you stated about Bono, artists have a big voice and they do have a responsibility to speak their truth. Many of Sinead’s fans have experienced abuse themselves.
Past time for me to get on to other things now, and as I sign off it's easy for me to simply agree with you...

It's certainly up to the performer to decide what the performance is going to include, not the audience. Read about how Bob Dylan did so much in the way of performance that turned off his fans big time. He didn't care and did it over and over again regardless. That's the perspective from the standpoint of the performer though.

The perspective from the standpoint of the fan is their prerogative too of course, and needless to say there are all sorts. Whether to applaud, complain, leave or not to return if they choose. For the performers and fans to work out as they will.

I don't agree performers "have a responsibility to speak their truth" however. Some may feel they do. Some may not, and again Bob Dylan for example took considerable exception to those who always felt he needed to say or do more about the social injustices going on during his day. Dylan preferred to avoid politics altogether as a more general rule. Didn't like to say much. Considered shy according to many who knew or know him best.

Again, it's up to the performer. I wouldn't go as far as to say they have a responsibility to do anything really. They need to do as they see fit, and many do exactly that. Sometimes to the dismay of the authorities, property owners and the "moral police." Sometimes for the betterment of their fellow man and woman.

For better or worse. Whatever the case might be...

Either way, turn up the volume!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-25-2023, 11:58 AM
 
29,540 posts, read 9,704,508 times
Reputation: 3467
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElijahAstin View Post
While I don’t think you realize this (and, to be clear, I am not personally offended because we’ve had enough discussions for me to better understand your intentions)...
Elijah,

I saw this rather humorous monologue yesterday (made me laugh anyway), and I was immediately reminded of our exchange about some of these issues. I'm not sure if you are familiar with this comedian, but he is rather popular lately and known for his ability to talk about sensitive issues like these in a way that for the most part gets past the objections about what is unacceptable or unreasonable to say or think. Known for "telling it like it really is." He's had an interesting career of "tight-roping" these topics, most recently drawing some objection from the LGBT community for example. Netflix stood by him with the special they did with him anyway. Largely because the objections about that too are what has proven to be the more unreasonable.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_m-gO0HSCYk

Curious your thoughts about this monologue. Some of the monologue is about EXACTLY what we previously "compared notes" about. Hopefully you'll get some laughs too. There's a bit of something for everyone in this...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-25-2023, 12:18 PM
 
15,950 posts, read 7,012,752 times
Reputation: 8543
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElijahAstin View Post
That depends on the speech, song, poetry, literature, and art in question.
If it is literature, art, it is political and speech. This is the reason why freedom to speak is precious and the first thing to be lost when the state gets corrupt. and clamps down on every manner of expression.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-25-2023, 12:40 PM
 
Location: North by Northwest
9,327 posts, read 12,997,648 times
Reputation: 6174
Quote:
Originally Posted by cb2008 View Post
If it is literature, art, it is political and speech. This is the reason why freedom to speak is precious and the first thing to be lost when the state gets corrupt. and clamps down on every manner of expression.
Is it speech? Of course. Is it political? It can be, but it certainly doesn’t have to be. There’s plenty of literature and art that is purely commercial in nature or may be more holistically inspired but by any number of other things that are not necessarily political in nature. Even artists that often were political, like The Beatles, created deliberately apolitical (and sometimes even nonsensical) content to screw around with people. John Lennon did exactly that with “I am the Walrus,” which was a very John Lennon thing to do.

People can (and very often do) apply political post hoc analyses to apolitical art or art that may arguably be political but is simply not political in the way its analysts proclaim (such as Marxist or feminist readings of Shakespeare). That doesn’t mean such anachronistic and self-imposing applications of unrelated theories and philosophies can’t prove a valuable intellectual exercise, but people shouldn’t conflate such food for thought with reality.

Your view is reminiscent of those who think anything a woman does is feminist because she’s a woman while doing it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:44 PM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top