The Off-Topic Thread (Mormon, Jesus Christ, children, organization)

[ElijahAstin]

Originally Posted by LearnMe

Elijah,

I saw this rather humorous monologue yesterday (made me laugh anyway), and I was immediately reminded of our exchange about some of these issues. I'm not sure if you are familiar with this comedian, but he is rather popular lately and known for his ability to talk about sensitive issues like these in a way that for the most part gets past the objections about what is unacceptable or unreasonable to say or think. Known for "telling it like it really is." He's had an interesting career of "tight-roping" these topics, most recently drawing some objection from the LGBT community for example. Netflix stood by him with the special they did with him anyway. Largely because the objections about that too are what has proven to be the more unreasonable.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_m-gO0HSCYk

Curious your thoughts about this monologue. Some of the monologue is about EXACTLY what we previously "compared notes" about. Hopefully you'll get some laughs too. There's a bit of something for everyone in this...

Of course, I am familiar with Dave Chapelle. He’s very talented, and I usually jive with his humor. I haven’t listened to the whole standup routine of recent infamy, but I have heard of (though did not pay close attention to) the resulting outrage.

But I’ll give it a listen later today, when I have some more time, and share my thoughts. I’ll do my best to come in with an open mind.

[Tzaphkiel]

Originally Posted by LearnMe

Elijah,

I saw this rather humorous monologue yesterday (made me laugh anyway), and I was immediately reminded of our exchange about some of these issues. I'm not sure if you are familiar with this comedian, but he is rather popular lately and known for his ability to talk about sensitive issues like these in a way that for the most part gets past the objections about what is unacceptable or unreasonable to say or think. Known for "telling it like it really is." He's had an interesting career of "tight-roping" these topics, most recently drawing some objection from the LGBT community for example. Netflix stood by him with the special they did with him anyway. Largely because the objections about that too are what has proven to be the more unreasonable.

Curious your thoughts about this monologue. Some of the monologue is about EXACTLY what we previously "compared notes" about. Hopefully you'll get some laughs too. There's a bit of something for everyone in this...

Do you find antisemitism funny? Do you find it funny to incite anti-trans rhetoric which leads to real-world harm?
View expressed in post above also seems to indicate that objections to the content are "unreasonable." and phrases like "telling it like it really is" suggests you agree with the rhetoric and buy into it and are, in a word, complicit.

" It’s dangerous rhetoric that’s been shown in study after study to directly impact the levels of anti-trans violence and societal prejudice that trans people already face daily." "There’s no getting around the reality that transphobic rhetoric like Chappelle’s absolutely contributes to real-life harm. But Chappelle seems to view that hurt, and even the immediate pain of his transphobic jokes, as a worthy trade-off."

"The Simon Wiesenthal Center also lashed Chappelle and NBC, which hosts SNL, for the monologue. “Dave Chappelle had the power to put anti-Semites in their place, and that’s how his SNL monologue began. By the end, he mainlined some of the worst core resurgent antisemitic tropes,” said Rabbi Abraham Cooper, the center’s director of global social action. “NBC Universal should never have allowed their platform to be used to push antisemitic hate.”'

article Outrage at Chappelle for amplifying transphobic views

and article Dave Chappelle’s antisemitic monologue sparks backlash

and article ADL chief blasts Dave Chappelle monologue as ‘normalizing’ antisemitism

[Tzaphkiel]

"Comedian Dave Chappelle has a well-established problem when it comes to not standing firmly against hate, and on Saturday night he displayed it again live. He devoted much of his commentary to the recent spate of antisemitic comments from Kanye West and Kyrie Irving. At first, it seemed like he might actually condemn the very hateful things they said. But instead, in what has now sadly also become modern Chappelle tradition, he pivoted halfway through to blame the targeted minority group for being offended, and to explain how the Black community is the real victim here.

"First, when it came to West, Chappelle actually reinforced the antisemitic ideas West had blasted. Chappelle explained why it is ok to think antisemitic thoughts (like Jews control Hollywood), but that you just cannot say them out loud in this climate. When he got to Irving, Chappelle expressed real surprise that the NBA All-Star had gotten in trouble for endorsing “some movie” that had “apparently, I don’t know, some antisemitic tropes or something.”

" The film Irving endorsed to his millions of followers does not have some “antisemitic tropes” as Chappelle and others have said in efforts to downplay it. The film centers around the types of lies that have throughout history led directly to discrimination and anti-Jewish violence. Among other things, the film accuses Jews of orchestrating a global conspiracy and denies the history of the Holocaust. Six million innocent Jewish men, women and children were tortured and murdered in cold blood – along with an untold number of Black victims – but Irving publicly promoted (and then defended) claims the Holocaust never happened, and that Jews made it up “to conceal their nature and protect their status and power.” That, Dave, is why Kyrie Irving got in trouble."

article Dave Chappelle well-established problem when it comes to not standing firmly against hate


they are public figures and can and do say whatever they want.
and it appears there are readers on CD who find it funny to normalize hateful, ignorant, bigoted behavior.
my observation and my opinion is that it is a way for readers (just like the public figures) to put forth and incite hate, and then hide behind "it's a joke" "it's funny" along with "objections to this are not reasonable."

[cb2008]

Chappelle is not anti-semetic. He is a successful comedian and he provokes, which is what the best of comedy does. What he is talking about is very complex, uncomfortable, and it is hard to talk about, but it is also is important to talk about. Perhaps a more open discourse might help mitigate the real hateful acts against jews, which definitely is real and to be condemned. Comedy rarely incite hate.
Perhaps this is not the best forum to discuss this show, Learn Me. I am a big fan.

[Tzaphkiel]

to quote dave chappelle himself, with what seems to be his current guiding principle, “Sometimes, the funniest thing to say is mean.” "In the rest of that 2017 special, he belittles the trauma of the women sexually violated by fellow comedian Louis CK, and makes jokes about survivors of R Kelly’s sexual abuse of children. These jokes were obviously not funny, but “mean” wasn’t necessarily the right word either. They were – as Chappelle had previously feared – socially irresponsible."

article Meet the new Dave Chappelle – misogynistic, anti-trans and socially irresponsible

since this is a discussion forum, sure let's have discussion on those readers who find it funny and support public figures who joke about rape and sexual abuse of children, and who don't see a problem with promoting films that legitimize and encourage denial of the Holocaust. those are just a few examples.

[Tzaphkiel]

Originally Posted by cb2008

Chappelle is not anti-semetic. He is a successful comedian and he provokes, which is what the best of comedy does. What he is talking about is very complex, uncomfortable, and it is hard to talk about, but it is also is important to talk about. Perhaps a more open discourse might help mitigate the real hateful acts against jews, which definitely is real and to be condemned. Comedy rarely incite hate.
Perhaps this is not the best forum to discuss this show, Learn Me. I am a big fan.

public figures with a large following and a public voice on stage, yes can and do incite hate regardless of their occupation.

[cb2008]

Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel

public figures with a large following and a public voice on stage, yes can and do incite hate regardless of their occupation.

What did he say that you think would incite hate?

[ElijahAstin]

So I watched the SNL Chapelle standup clip from start to finish. I wasn’t offended or outraged, and I didn’t find it anti-Semitic. But it was tone-deaf on the topic of anti-Semitism to the extent that Chapelle was saying, “Yeah, I don’t condone what Kanye and Kyrie are doing, but is it really a big deal?” And that rubbed me the wrong way.

Chapelle could have taken a firmer stand without compromising his comic timing or delivery, but perhaps he didn’t because he really doesn’t think it’s a big deal. I don’t consider that anti-Semitism per se, but I do find that attitude disappointing. And it is concerning to the extent that Kanye and Kyrie do have power and influence, and a lot of people take what they say seriously and view them as role models to be emulated.

Now, Chapelle isn’t responsible for their misdeeds, and it’s not fair to hold Chapelle accountable as if he said those awful things, which he didn’t. The parodic I’m not Jewish but I’ll try to subvert anti-Semitic tropes for laughs*** is circa. 2003 passé though and, I think, has gone out of favor for good reason.

But in that regard, I think Chapelle is a product of his peak comedic era. Some comics can successfully toe the edgy line throughout their careers by carefully keeping their ears to the tracks in order to stay on the right side of that line. That’s a hard dance to nail down (George Carlin definitely nailed it), and many talented comics can’t do it successfully forever. I’m not certain Lenny Bruce could have accomplished that in perpetuity, genius though he was.

***And the same is true when any comic tries approaching controversial topics involving different groups as an outsider; it’s not just about Jews and anti-Semitism.

[Derek41]

In some good news, many social media religious “groups” have been banned in recent times.
I recall one Facebook page, named Catholic Church Worldwide Forum - Debate (was actually all in caps) and other hate sites have now been taken down.
There was no constructive debate on sites like this, just hate and trolling with Bible passages etc.
Catholics were seen as the modern day Pharisees.
It even mixed the Roman Empire and the Catholic Church as one entity, accusing Catholics of feeding the “Real Christians” to the lions etc.
Thank God social media has finally removed hate groups like this now, and only in recent times.

[JaiSea]

Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel

public figures with a large following and a public voice on stage, yes can and do incite hate regardless of their occupation.

Yes, just like Roger Waters.

"The German city of Frankfurt has canceled a show by former Pink Floyd frontman Roger Waters due to his antisemitism."

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...sm/ar-AA17UE7q