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Old 07-01-2023, 04:53 PM
 
Location: minnesota
15,795 posts, read 6,212,741 times
Reputation: 5033

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Quote:
Originally Posted by cb2008 View Post
I find it quite impossible to decipher what you are saying here. Talk to me like I am a dumb Brhman. Lay it all out.
The topic has meandered perhaps.
What was at issue was anti-wokism and identity politics. Anti-wokism that regards diversity, equality and inclusion as thought police and oppression. Identity became politics only when Black people called out that their lives matter.The very fact that it needed to be said, and it did, seems political and threatening. Same way when women burned their bras in protest of their bodies being sexualized and their mind not recognized, and demanded equal rights, it was also identity politics and was threatening.

Brhman is the truth. Body is maya, unreal, and a condition of the sentient being that hides the truth from himself.

What is also true is that Body earns karma. The karma of enslavement, monetizing of the human body, abusing it, oppressing and punishing it, the segregation, denial of rights, denial of equal opportunities in every economic advancement by legislation written into law, will bear poisoned fruit. Karma is democratic, it spreads it all around equally, maybe socialist is a better word, the same way the effect of good acts benefits all. We all eat of that poisoned fruit, it does not just vanish.


A careful, empathetic and spiritual reading of this above quote, would reveal that discrimination here is nuanced. Anti-racist discrimination is not tit for tat for past discrimination. The same way racist actions were meted out we need to be discriminating as to how to unravel it. So just the way the body that was not of the right color was discriminated against and was denied equal opportunity, that same suffering body now needs rehabilitation. That is what affirmative action is all about. That collective restitution is good karma, which will heal all of us.

There is no judgement involved here. It is karma, and karma needs attention.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cb2008 View Post
Are you talking to me?
You are the one that said you felt as if I was talking to you a if you were dumb.
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Old 07-01-2023, 05:14 PM
 
15,810 posts, read 6,873,166 times
Reputation: 8480
Quote:
Originally Posted by L8Gr8Apost8 View Post
You are the one that said you felt as if I was talking to you a if you were dumb.
I see. I think I said talk to me as if I am dumb because your posts are very opaque. You never clearly state what you mean in simple sentences. You play with words and with obscure references that are not clear to me. If I have time or inclination I may look them up otherwise pass. You post links to videos instead of explaining. I think you like playing games.

I am a pretty straight forward person. I say what I mean and mean what I say. I am fond of crystal clear writing. I don't do well with youtube as responses. half the time I skip the whole post if it has youtube links. Don't have time for that.
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Old 07-01-2023, 05:18 PM
 
Location: minnesota
15,795 posts, read 6,212,741 times
Reputation: 5033
Quote:
Originally Posted by cb2008 View Post
I see. I think I said talk to me as if I am dumb because your posts are very opaque. You never clearly state what you mean in simple sentences. You play with words and with obscure references that are not clear to me. If I have time or inclination I may look them up otherwise pass. You post links to videos instead of explaining. I think you like playing games.

I am a pretty straight forward person. I say what I mean and mean what I say. I am fond of crystal clear writing. I don't do well with youtube as responses. half the time I skip the whole post if it has youtube links. Don't have time for that.
I was attempting my best to connect. It seems that just ends in frustration for you.
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Old 07-01-2023, 05:21 PM
 
15,810 posts, read 6,873,166 times
Reputation: 8480
Quote:
Originally Posted by L8Gr8Apost8 View Post
I was attempting my best to connect. It seems that just ends in frustration for you.
I appreciate your effort to connect and I enjoy interacting with you. I am not frustrated. I just find it difficult to understand all of what you say.
Maybe we can both try harder?
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Old 07-01-2023, 06:17 PM
 
Location: minnesota
15,795 posts, read 6,212,741 times
Reputation: 5033
Quote:
Originally Posted by cb2008 View Post
I appreciate your effort to connect and I enjoy interacting with you. I am not frustrated. I just find it difficult to understand all of what you say.
Maybe we can both try harder?
I don't see a point in forcing it. We just communicated differently. I find it perfect that the atheist is the one who uses too much woo for the believer. Lol
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Old 07-02-2023, 09:45 AM
 
29,335 posts, read 9,513,380 times
Reputation: 3416
Quote:
Originally Posted by cb2008 View Post
Very poetic but hollow. I know nothing about how to sail a boat, but I know that blowing at the sail, without working them in the right direction, is not sailing.The Democrats grandstanding rarely become actions. Both parties are sell outs to corporations. We only have ourselves to depend on.
Well at least poetic! That's better than I usually get from you...

Though I can appreciate the frustration everyone shares when it comes to our political system, I'm not one to throw everything under the same bus as if there isn't better over worse always to choose from. Like wind in the sails of a boat. Even if you are not a mariner, it isn't hard to realize that without wind, you're not going anywhere too fast in a sail boat, but even then you want to at least be headed in the right direction. Needless to say, if you can't tell which is a right direction, then you're best to stay off the water. Put another way, "if you don't know where you're going, any path will get you there."

We have only ourselves to depend on. True to a point, but deny what comes from collective attitude and action or to deny the symbiotic relationship that is the collective with the government, and we only sideline ourselves. I depend on myself but others as well, to push in the right direction too, or we go backwards.
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Old 07-02-2023, 10:02 AM
 
29,335 posts, read 9,513,380 times
Reputation: 3416
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
It is a choice. The mentally ill can stop being homeless the minute they choose to start taking their meds.

A homeless veteran can stop being homeless by contacting any social worker and within a few hours they'll have a free place to stay for up to a year, three free meals everyday, free medical care, free psychiatric care, free psychological counseling, free relationship counseling, free substance abuse counseling, free financial counseling, free employment counseling, a job under 100% disability getting more than $3,000 month, a free chauffer to drive them around to apply for jobs, and a free chauffer to drive them around to find an apartment subsidized by tax-payers through HUD-VASH.

Substance abusers can stop being homeless the minute they choose to seek substance abuse counseling.

People choose to be poor. I've repeatedly posted links to Michigan vocational schools that offer MIG/TIG welding courses for $125. All you have to do is spend $125 to get certified as MIG/TIG welder and enjoy starting wages of $17/hour to $45/hour in the US.

You'll make up excuses they can't afford $125 and yet they've got $1,200 of butt-ugly tattoos and spend $125 week on dope.

Cincinnati State is $158/credit hour. $3,792 for one year. Everyone in poverty automatically qualifies for a combined Pell Grant/Ohio Educational Opportunity Grant of $6,095/year.

Do the math:

$6,095
$3,792 less
--------
$2,303 profit per year

You'll make up all kinds of excuses why they can't do it. Childcare. Sorry, childcare is free until 9:00 PM. They can't afford transportation. Sorry, they get free bus passes. It interferes with their current job schedule. Sorry, they offer asynchronous web-based courses. They don't have computers. Sorry, they give free laptops to students.

What excuse do you have for them now?

If the poor don't wanna do what needs to be done, that's fine with me but I'm not morally or ethically obligated to subsidize their life-styles.
I've addressed this sort of thinking or logic too many times to count, and I have little confidence I can change the thinking of anyone who thinks this way for reasons that defy reason and logic, but I'll try a different angle with you to see how you might respond...

For starters, I find it very difficult to accept the fact that people choose to experience the misery that so many people in poverty or on drugs or with mental illness have to endure. For long periods of time, sometimes a lifetime, let alone one day at a time. Accordingly, my skepticism about that sort of assumption has lead me to look into this sort of issue a little deeper than most conservatives are willing. Unwilling for reasons I won't get into right here.

Instead, forget those enduring the worst of circumstances. At the "bottom of the ladder." Literally many millions of people. Instead let's consider the person working long hard hours. Barely making ends meet but not poor or homeless or on drugs. Consider the person exhausted at the end of the day from hard labor and try as they might, they just can't get ahead. Compare to a person who has somehow managed to make many times as much money per hour of work. Someone making say $1 million/year.

Now then, would you say the person working their ass off at barely minimum wage is CHOOSING to do so rather than choosing to make more like $1 million/year? IOWs, to what extent is anyone's success or failure simply a matter of choice rather than other circumstances that ultimately determine where one lands on the socio-economic ladder? If it's other circumstances rather than choice (as I firmly believe), then it's the circumstances rather than choice that also explains why so many people are at the bottom. Not all, but far too many to simply write off as having "chosen" poverty or homelessness. As if all they need do is choose otherwise.

Ultimately, perhaps it's simply a matter of fact that not all people have the same ability to do what anyone else is able to do. Even if it's a matter of living like a person rather than an animal. Even if it's a matter of life and death.
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Old 07-02-2023, 10:12 AM
 
29,335 posts, read 9,513,380 times
Reputation: 3416
Quote:
Originally Posted by mensaguy View Post
OK, people. Yes, this is an Off Topic Thread. However, it is an Off Topic Thread in the Religion and Spirituality forum. While there is no specific topic for this thread, and topics come and go in threads like this, posts should generally relate to Religion or Spirituality. Post most definitely should not be something that should be in another forum, such as Politics and Other Controversies.

We won't be closing this thread, but we will take action of posts appear to belong in the Political area.

Carry on.
Got it! A little late this morning before I got to your warning, but duly noted. Too bad, because if a topic takes off, no matter where, it's sometimes more interesting for those who choose to comment over whatever else might better belong in a particular forum, but okay. Let's see if we can better relate these comments to Religion and Spirituality...

For me, comments about how to take care of our fellow man and why (or not) are more my "religion and spirituality" than say which church or religion someone prefers, but I suppose that might be a stretch here. As mentioned before, I've been somewhat surprised if not disappointed other off-topic topics haven't been introduced here. More anyway. I bring them here when they come to mind, but lately it's been other comments posted in this thread that have got my focus. Sad if I won't be getting Mircea's reply to my last exchange with him if not okay for this forum.

Thanks for not resorting to the knee-jerk shutting down of a thread that is sometimes a little too typical!

Sincerely,

LM
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Old 07-02-2023, 10:22 AM
 
29,335 posts, read 9,513,380 times
Reputation: 3416
How about this one. In another thread a few were going on about traffic in the New York, New Jersey area, and I was reminded of this I've been reading about lately...

"Congregants of the West Park Presbyterian Church, a Manhattan landmark, want it torn down and replaced by condos. Celebrities are joining the fight to save it."

Anyone can Google for this story and/or to see a picture of this church that I remember seeing last time I was in New York. Though I am an atheist, I would be very sad to see so many beautiful religious structures like this one go the way of demolition and new development.

Another case of attitude filling the sails of action? To save the church that is.
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Old 07-02-2023, 10:24 AM
 
29,335 posts, read 9,513,380 times
Reputation: 3416
About that time for me to be shutting down here and firing up the burners for our BSB...

A good Sunday and blessed holiday weekend for all!
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