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Old 12-08-2022, 09:01 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,133 posts, read 23,792,348 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G.Duval View Post
Most atheists are between organized religions, looking to satisfy natural human religion of by intuition knowing that God is real just having problem accepting man made rules of irganized religions...
What are your qualifications to speak for "Most atheists"? You certainly don't speak for me.
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Old 12-08-2022, 09:12 AM
 
3,573 posts, read 1,151,905 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
What are your qualifications to speak for "Most atheists"? You certainly don't speak for me.
Arguing with all kind of Atheism on a few forums since 1998. Being born in Communist Atheistic country.
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Old 12-08-2022, 09:43 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,133 posts, read 23,792,348 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G.Duval View Post
Arguing with all kind of Atheism on a few forums since 1998. Being born in Communist Atheistic country.
Oh wait...first you speak for most atheists and now you say there are all kinds of atheism. Hmmmmm.
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Old 12-08-2022, 09:44 AM
 
Location: Germany
16,579 posts, read 4,865,560 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G.Duval View Post
Most atheists are between organized religions, looking to satisfy natural human religion of by intuition knowing that God is real just having problem accepting man made rules of irganized religions...
No, it is your 'intuition' that YOUR god exists, just has other religious people have 'intuition' that THEIR god exists.

But they are still different gods, because 'intuition' is a cognitive bias that often leads to false conclusions.
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Old 12-08-2022, 10:00 AM
 
Location: minnesota
15,792 posts, read 6,201,871 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Diogenes View Post
No, it is your 'intuition' that YOUR god exists, just has other religious people have 'intuition' that THEIR god exists.

But they are still different gods, because 'intuition' is a cognitive bias that often leads to false conclusions.
I don't see intuition itself as a cognitive bias. I think the biases come in when we try and interpret what our intuition is trying to tell us. That's been my experience anyway. I don't know how to read it.
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Old 12-08-2022, 10:03 AM
 
Location: Germany
16,579 posts, read 4,865,560 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by L8Gr8Apost8 View Post
I don't see intuition itself as a cognitive bias. I think the biases come in when we try and interpret what our intuition is trying to tell us. That's been my experience anyway. I don't know how to read it.
Intuition alone is not. It is this intuition based on false positives that probably makes us see purpose or an intelligence behind things, which is why I put intuition in quotes.
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Old 12-08-2022, 10:55 AM
 
Location: minnesota
15,792 posts, read 6,201,871 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Diogenes View Post
Intuition alone is not. It is this intuition based on false positives that probably makes us see purpose or an intelligence behind things, which is why I put intuition in quotes.
I liked Michael Shermer on this one. We are the descendents of those who ran when the leaves rustled be it from the wind or a predator. It's on our nature to infuse agency.
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Old 12-08-2022, 11:39 AM
 
29,335 posts, read 9,500,810 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
IMO, one of the major ways probabilities work is, "What question are we trying to answer?"
The question here is, Is there a consciousness after death? The simple answers are Yes or No. (and obviously, the empirical answer is, "We don't really know".)
So, generally speaking, probability in our particular scenario is 50/50
We are flipping a coin, not rolling a dice. And our question above in bold, clearly indicates this.

Now, if we want into granularities, then obviously there are unlimited number of out comes as to what's after death? And we don't have a device (like a coin or dice) that will have unlimited number of choices, and flipping or rolling it will give us one answer.

Also, talking about granularities, even flipping a coin is not 50/50.
Some statistician believe, and their research indicates that it's actually about 51/49 in favor of the side that's up when flipping the coin.

Another granularity is that the head side has a very small quantity of extra metal used to carve the shape, so the coin is very slightly heavier on the head side, and hence there is a slightly higher chance that the coin may land on head side.

So, for the sake of argument, we have to make an assumption that it's 50/50, just as we have to make an assumption that the coin will actually land if flipped in the air.

Which is fine for you - but - I have another "logical granularity" here. And as I have stated before, "Absence of evidence is not necessarily the evidence of absence."

Do you remember the example of oxygen? Did it exist a thousand years ago, when no one had evidence that oxygen exists?

And then obviously, we can't define the evidence of God. We don't have a scientific formula where the numbers will be plugged in and the result will prove an entity to be God or not? And we also dont have a chemicals test where we can put an entity under a microscope to study the specie, run some tests and refer to a book or a chart, and prove that this entity is God.

IMO,
Belief in God comes from "faith" and not the "evidence".

And this "faith" is build by research and looking for "signs of God". And these signs are only for those who truly search for God.
As I have previously stated, the brain does the research and logic part, but the call to faith comes from the heart.

Otherwise, think about it, if there truly was an "Evidence of God" as per everyone's liking then the entire human kind would have had no choice but to believe in God. In which case, what would've been the point of life? God would've created every single one of us, and had entered us into heaven or hell. Why he would've given us life, gave us a choice, and a certain amount of time?? What would've been the purpose of our existence on this earth if all humanity was a believer in ONE God?
Our actions in this world and in this life would've have had no meaning and no effect.

I think God must be having a lot of fun, watching us all trying to play this game of probabilities.

As humans, what can we do about it?
My answer is, now that we are here, lets deal with it.

I think we can apply the same logic here to address the oracle of probabilities. What question are we trying to answer? And the question in this case is, whether one decides to live his life by religious code/morality or not?
The general answer is, Yes or No, and hence 50/50 probability.
But I do understand your point as well, so there isn't much to argue here.

It's actually good to have Atheists here, many of whom, including yourself, have maintained a very high standard of scholarly conversations in a friendly atmosphere.

Human brain is an amazing thing. And my main interest in this forum is to see how the brain in different people, sees and react differently, when looking at the same scene and scenario.
Thanks! Let me try again...

First, how probabilities work is not a matter of opinion. No more than how algebra works is a matter of opinion.

Secondly, regardless the question, if the only answers allowed are either a "yes" or "no," then it is true there is a 50/50 chance one or the other answer will be given. This, however, does not mean the probability is the same with regard to whether a yes or no answer is correct.

If we don't establish this fundamental understanding, it is hard to go much further, but aside from the odds and/or probabilities, what you further explain is also difficult for me to accept given my way of thinking or understanding...

Of course belief in God comes from faith and not evidence. This is why faith is called upon. Why it's called faith, and anything can be said to be built by research and "looking for signs," but without the results of the research or a sharing of these signs that demonstrate the existence of a god, for example, it is impossible to judge the merit of whatever conclusions are drawn. Ultimately, if we're back to faith, the implication is that no good research or sign or evidence exists. Or what is it please?

I have to question your belief about what the brain does vs what "comes from the heart" as well. All evidence I am aware of lends no credence to anything along these lines "coming from the heart." Look up the function of the heart in our bodies for the facts about this too. All our thoughts, notions, opinions and beliefs are created by our brains, based on the best of our abilities to learn what we can from all there is to learn from.

To confuse these facts, sources, research, signs or proofs is the very thing of religion and/or spirituality. This and/or the unwillingness to share what is so convincing about a god based on this research and/or these signs. All of which for those of us not so inclined to leave these questions unanswered is entirely unconvincing. In part why I am an atheist.

Sincerely,

LM
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Old 12-08-2022, 11:45 AM
 
29,335 posts, read 9,500,810 times
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Originally Posted by GldnRule View Post
I would answer you, in detail...but read Post #113.
Though I will see what happens.
I have read plenty many enough of your answers over and over again to know quite well what your answer would be here again, so nothing lost in terms of what happens here going forward either way I don't think...
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Old 12-08-2022, 11:46 AM
 
29,335 posts, read 9,500,810 times
Reputation: 3415
Quote:
Originally Posted by G.Duval View Post
Most atheists are between organized religions, looking to satisfy natural human religion of by intuition knowing that God is real just having problem accepting man made rules of irganized religions...
Say what?!?
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