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Can you explain an alternative for why things fall? Not simply assert an intelligent god created everything behind the scene, explain how a god did this?
Gravitational pull also causes things to rise.
Water flows to the lowest point and yet rises to the highest point.
It's not a one way street. I like knowing Arron's staff that budded, kept in the Ark of the Covenant.
It means that I don't accept Harry's contention that "it is no good whining about science just because for over 2000 years, it has always been naturalism that explains things...".
Can you tell me what explanation has naturalism given for why things fall? Don't tell me to jump of a balcony to prove Newton's explanation that it is due to the attraction of my body by planet Earth. I find that laughable.
Naturalism vs theism. This is a great debate. Bring out the atheists.
So you don't believe in gravity. But you believe in all sort of mysticism.
It means that I don't accept Harry's contention that "it is no good whining about science just because for over 2000 years, it has always been naturalism that explains things...".
Can you tell me what explanation has naturalism given for why things fall? Don't tell me to jump of a balcony to prove Newton's explanation that it is due to the attraction of my body by planet Earth. I find that laughable.
Naturalism vs theism. This is a great debate. Bring out the atheists.
Actually, both positions are brute fact premises and cannot be debated because neither one can be proven just asserted.
It means that I don't accept Harry's contention that "it is no good whining about science just because for over 2000 years, it has always been naturalism that explains things...".
Can you tell me what explanation has naturalism given for why things fall? Don't tell me to jump of a balcony to prove Newton's explanation that it is due to the attraction of my body by planet Earth. I find that laughable.
Naturalism vs theism. This is a great debate. Bring out the atheists.
OK, ...
There was either absolutely nothing (including gods and rules explaining how absolutely nothing behaves), or something always existed. These are the only two logical possibilities.
If there is nothing to say how absolutely nothing behaves, then that does not prevent something coming from nothing.
No god is therefore required to explain existence, it is a logical necessity.
So where do properties and behaviors described by laws come from? If you argue a god is required to create them, then where do the properties and behaviors of this god come from? If you argue they are inherent in this gods existence, then we can argue the same, they are inherent in existence itself, so again, no god required.
Actually, both positions are brute fact premises and cannot be debated because neither one can be proven just asserted.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Diogenes
OK, ...
There was either absolutely nothing (including gods and rules explaining how absolutely nothing behaves), or something always existed. These are the only two logical possibilities.
If there is nothing to say how absolutely nothing behaves, then that does not prevent something coming from nothing.
No god is therefore required to explain existence, it is a logical necessity.
So where do properties and behaviors described by laws come from? If you argue a god is required to create them, then where do the properties and behaviors of this god come from? If you argue they are inherent in this gods existence, then we can argue the same, they are inherent in existence itself, so again, no god required.
The above rationale is WHY either position can only be asserted, NOT proven, especially since the forum does NOT allow debate about why existence itself is NOT a God relative to us mere mortal (but amazingly aware) beings.
The above rationale is WHY either position can only be asserted, NOT proven, especially since the forum does NOT allow debate about why existence itself is NOT a God relative to us mere mortal (but amazingly aware) beings.
I find it strange I did a third option. And your simple question begging 'creator, therefore god' has been explained and refuted so many times (also true for atheism AND infers most gods are not gods), so please spare us from your persecution complex, you can not blame us because you insist on hijacking almost every thread.
I also find it is interesting that you did not address the actual content of my post.
So scientists are idiots? Do you even think about what you write?
Why is it that religionists hate it when we ask for proof of god, the resurrection, etc., but then ask us to prove things. Have they no principles?
Religionists? What are they? Practitioners of religious faiths? I don't think it is helpful to indulge in bigotry using labels to condemn and brand people whose persuasions you do not like.
You said you do not like being labeled as a friend which, in my opinion, is not a negative term to use even in my relationship with the Devil. Even if you are the Devil, I must give Jesus' teaching on oneness a chance to bear fruit.
People, in general and by nature, are idiots. An idiot is one who swallows every lie he is told. I am not using the word "idiot" as a pejorative but in an objective sense equivalent to "coarse mind" affected by the primordial force of ignorance or avidya (sanskrit). I speak American.
Anyone, professing to be a scientist, would not realize that he is observing natural phenomena from within the system. He is like Dopey, a dwarf among many, studying the story of Snow White from within the fairy tale created by Walt Disney (the Maya maker). In other words, scientists observing the natural universe are telling you what they believe is it origin. They are no different from Dopey making the best guess on who is the father of Snow White. And that, is naturalism's explanation that Harry wants me to swallow.
The above rationale is WHY either position can only be asserted, NOT proven, especially since the forum does NOT allow debate about why existence itself is NOT a God relative to us mere mortal (but amazingly aware) beings.
I am not questioning forum rules anymore than I would question God' commandment not to kill or steal. Do you know the reason for the rule against debating who made us?
I still remember my Catechism which I recited as a kid. It's etched in my head now.
Who made you? God made me.
Why did God make you? God made me to know Him and love Him in this world, and to be with Him forever in the next.
Religionists? What are they? Practitioners of religious faiths? I don't think it is helpful to indulge in bigotry using labels to condemn and brand people whose persuasions you do not like.
You said you do not like being labeled as a friend which, in my opinion, is not a negative term to use even in my relationship with the Devil. Even if you are the Devil, I must give Jesus' teaching on oneness a chance to bear fruit.
People, in general and by nature, are idiots. An idiot is one who swallows every lie he is told. I am not using the word "idiot" as a pejorative but in an objective sense equivalent to "coarse mind" affected by the primordial force of ignorance or avidya (sanskrit). I speak American.
Anyone, professing to be a scientist, would not realize that he is observing natural phenomena from within the system. He is like Dopey, a dwarf among many, studying the story of Snow White from within the fairy tale created by Walt Disney (the Maya maker). In other words, scientists observing the natural universe are telling you what they believe is it origin. They are no different from Dopey making the best guess on who is the father of Snow White. And that, is naturalism's explanation that Harry wants me to swallow.
There is a fifth dimension beyond that which is known to man. It is a dimension as vast as space and as timeless as infinity. It is the middle ground between light and shadow, between science and superstition, and it lies between the pit of man's fears and the summit of his knowledge. This is the dimension of imagination. It is an area which we call "The Twilight Zone"
Water flows to the lowest point and yet rises to the highest point.
It's not a one way street. I like knowing Arron's staff that budded, kept in the Ark of the Covenant.
Gravity doesn't cause water to rise or anything else. No idea where you are getting that from.
Water rises yes, in the the form of condensation, but it's not caused by gravity.
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