Why an Atheist in the R&S Forum?

[Tzaphkiel]

Originally Posted by ElijahAstin

Exactly. That’s why I said most forms of love are (and should be!) conditional.

the love that we have within us though, which is divinity within us, is not conditional however. It is there no matter what and it is not transient nor is it dependent upon or affected by anything external.


that's the difference.
which those who reject deny discard divinity, may not understand or grasp or recognize or accept.

[myuen2]

Originally Posted by ElijahAstin

Sorry, but you’re wrong. I would fall out of love with my wife if she turned out to be unfaithful, or became abusive, or did any number of other bad things that are inconsistent with my vision of who a good friend, partner, and parent to our child should be. If I did those same bad things to her, she would be well within our rights to do the same.

I wouldn’t fall out of love instantaneously. I would probably experience a period of disbelief and try to restore our relationship to its prior healthy and mutually respectful equilibrium. I would also be heartbroken and mourn the loss of the relationship. But sooner or later I would fall out of love and move on, however awful and surreal the feeling would be at the time. This is something I never expect to happen and greatly hope will never happen. But it could happen, and it would hardly defy the laws of physics if it ever did happen.

It’s called having self-respect, and setting boundaries, and knowing what you can and can’t take and do and don’t deserve in a loving relationship. You might hold yourself to different standards, which is fine for you and 100% your prerogative. But you are completely and undeniably wrong if you assert that other peoples’ vision of love is a mere transaction, or “barter,” to use your parlance.

What you have explained as the basis of your marital love sounds very much a transactional relationship to me. Much like the Terms of Use you agree to when you become a member of City-Data.com.

Love means even if your wife has to say she is sorry.

[myuen2]

Originally Posted by ElijahAstin

Exactly. That’s why I said most forms of love are (and should be!) conditional.

Did you marry your wife at City Hall? The civil ceremony vow goes like this:


"I, (Groom), take you (Bride), to be my wife. In this moment, I promise before these witnesses to love you and care for you all of our days. I accept you with your faults and your strengths, even as I offer myself with my faults and my strengths."


Sounds as unconditionally binding as "for better or for worse till death do us part, so help me God."

[cb2008]

Originally Posted by myuen2

Did you marry your wife at City Hall? The civil ceremony vow goes like this:


"I, (Groom), take you (Bride), to be my wife. In this moment, I promise before these witnesses to love you and care for you all of our days. I accept you with your faults and your strengths, even as I offer myself with my faults and my strengths."


Sounds as unconditionally binding as "for better or for worse till death do us part, so help me God."

Apparently City Hall knows what is live. Not a transaction or barter

[myuen2]

Originally Posted by cb2008

Apparently City Hall knows what is live. Not a transaction or barter

Secularism is a load of bull. Their atheist humanist values and relational ethics are all appropriated from Christianity. Talk about intellectual property theft.

[phetaroi]

Originally Posted by myuen2

Secularism is a load of bull. Their atheist humanist values and relational ethics are all appropriated from Christianity. Talk about intellectual property theft.

If secularism is a load of bull, and they got their values and ethics from christianity...

Do you think before you post?

[ElijahAstin]

Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel

the love that we have within us though, which is divinity within us, is not conditional however. It is there no matter what and it is not transient nor is it dependent upon or affected by anything external.


that's the difference.
which those who reject deny discard divinity, may not understand or grasp or recognize or accept.

I refer back to my prior post, where I state that how we love (if not the ability to love) is shaped by a variety of external factors, good, bad, and indifferent.

Originally Posted by myuen2

What you have explained as the basis of your marital love sounds very much a transactional relationship to me. Much like the Terms of Use you agree to when you become a member of City-Data.com.

Love means even if your wife has to say she is sorry.

I know you think you’re clever, but your posts often make no sense. This is one of them.

Originally Posted by myuen2

Did you marry your wife at City Hall? The civil ceremony vow goes like this:


"I, (Groom), take you (Bride), to be my wife. In this moment, I promise before these witnesses to love you and care for you all of our days. I accept you with your faults and your strengths, even as I offer myself with my faults and my strengths."


Sounds as unconditionally binding as "for better or for worse till death do us part, so help me God."

A Reform Jewish Rabbi at a country club, actually. But divorce is allowed in Judaism, just as it is in most Christian sects (and even Catholics have that loophole known as annulment). In fact, the desire to freely divorce was the impetus for founding a major Christian sect or two.

[Harry Diogenes]

Originally Posted by myuen2

Secularism is a load of bull.

That is why many religious countries are secularist.

Originally Posted by myuen2

Their atheist humanist values and relational ethics are all appropriated from Christianity. Talk about intellectual property theft.

Our humanist values (which are the same as religious humanist values) were old when the young Christianity was arguing you have to believe Jesus was resurrected to go to heaven, and that you had to accept the OT laws and values, including the bad ones.

Our humanist values were formulated independently of religion by people such as Aristotle in the west, and Daoists, Buddhists and Confucianists in the East.

[cb2008]

Originally Posted by myuen2

Secularism is a load of bull. Their atheist humanist values and relational ethics are all appropriated from Christianity. Talk about intellectual property theft.

Behavior that is focused on developing the right mindset is for the sake of knowing the nature of the Self, and the Self’s relationship to Divinity. It is in that effort and belief that values are born. No religion owns this.

[mensaguy]

Originally Posted by cb2008

The bolded, can you expand on what that means to you? I truly would like to know. To me the two sounds mutually exclusive, and that is because spiritualism includes the knowledge of divinity.

We've got an entire thread active right now about people being spiritual but not religious. So far, it has over 400 posts. Apparently, quite a few people recognize spiritual as covering other aspects than divinity.

I have no opinion about whether atheists belong here or not. I just would like to share experience and information with others who are religious and spiritual in this space. It is truly wonderful when that happens.

Atheists obviously belong here. You've posted in then A&A forum, so I'm sure you have read what the owner of City-Data wrote when he created that forum.

Originally Posted by Administrator

This sub-forum is not the place for proselytizing or attempting to convert atheists or agnostics. It is meant for atheists and agnostics interested in discussions among themselves and for others who want to learn more about this worldview and are interested in posing non-confrontational questions to atheists or agnostics. Use our main Religion and Philosophy forum if you want to debate the merits of this worldview (but do a search first to see if your topics have already been discussed).

At that time, this forum was titled Religion and Philosophy. Even though it is now Religion and Spirituality, debating the merits of the "worldview" of atheism is supposed to take place in this forum, which would obviously include atheists, so atheists will be here, as he designed the forum.