Why an Atheist in the R&S Forum? (Mormon, Muslims, protestants)

[mordant]

Originally Posted by Cruithne

"Was this in America by any chance?"
"How did you guess?".
"They wont learn will they?"

No, they most certainly won't.

[AnywhereElse]

Very interesting thread. I wanted to say though that I see Christianity brought up several times, and that there are many religions that believe in God or a spiritual being, etc., not just Christianity. I know many know this, but often what I see is that Christianity is brought up and with what is seen as its shortcomings geing the reason someone doesn't seem to believe in God. There are so many options, but giving up on religions in general due to Christianity is not necessary.

I believe in God, but left Christianity, and that isn't so popular with the people I know. That can be a little tough, because when you make the "exit" from a particular group's beliefs, they want to "save" you from yourself - a really pain in the behind now for decades!

I totally understand why just anyone with any belief would be here, unless they were close minded, or were simply not that comfortable with their beliefs fearing that they might waiver if reading beliefs and reasons that others have.

[mordant]

Originally Posted by AnywhereElse

Very interesting thread. I wanted to say though that I see Christianity brought up several times, and that there are many religions that believe in God or a spiritual being, etc., not just Christianity. I know many know this, but often what I see is that Christianity is brought up and with what is seen as its shortcomings geing the reason someone doesn't seem to believe in God. There are so many options, but giving up on religions in general due to Christianity is not necessary.

I believe in God, but left Christianity, and that isn't so popular with the people I know. That can be a little tough, because when you make the "exit" from a particular group's beliefs, they want to "save" you from yourself - a really pain in the behind now for decades!

I totally understand why just anyone with any belief would be here, unless they were close minded, or were simply not that comfortable with their beliefs fearing that they might waiver if reading beliefs and reasons that others have.

Christianity gets talked up a lot here because it's what we're most familiar with as the apex religion in the West. Of course there are other theistic religions and when I left Christianity I examined those and found them all lacking in their theory of knowledge. Any discussion of supernatural realms and beings necessarily must be assertions without evidence, inherently and definitionally. That is why I am no longer a theist of any stripe.

The only other religion I'm somewhat acquainted with is Buddhism, and I borrow some ideas from it. But that isn't a dogmatically theistic religion. From what little I know of Taoism (another god-optional religion) I would resonate somewhat with that as well. But I do best with a minimum set of assumptions or guesses and ceremony. Other's mileage can and does vary.

No one should assume ignorance of non-Christian religions or a failure to understand that the Christian god is just one set of claims about the nature, character, and demands of god -- and one set of assumptions (e.g., there is one god) -- simply because that's mostly what gets discussed in this space.

Besides, we have a resident former Christian-turned-Buddhist here, a couple of panentheists, and some roll-your-own spirituality types -- so we do get other perspectives.

[Northsouth]

Originally Posted by GldnRule

Why wouldn't/shouldn't the Atheist Religion adherents be on this forum?
In fact...they fervently preach the virtues of their views (and how it is The Superior View, relative to other Beliefs) and proselytize with the best of them.
The depth of their convictions, their prolific pontification, and the endurance of their evangelizing is impressive.
They certainly belong here.

Atheism, for the 10,000th time, is not a religion. We worship nothing. No need to bow down to something that doesn't even exist. In case you missed it, there were a few posters who were demanding that atheists had no right to be in their precious R&S. I think you may have been one of them. I have never noticed any atheist proselytizing for or against anything, just stating the facts, ma'am. I mean Sir.

One second you are saying we're evangelizing, then the next you are saying we belong here. So what is your reason for proselytizing? Oh I see, you don't do that. I can't believe I'm having to do this but it is what it is, and what it is is that you obviously don't know what it means to evangelize. Here's your definition for future reference:

e·van·ge·lize
/əˈvanjəˌlīz/
convert or seek to convert (someone) to Christianity.
"some small groups have been evangelized by Protestant missionaries"
Similar:
convert
proselytize
bring to God/Christ/Jesus
bring into the fold
redeem
save
make someone see the light
preach (to)
seek/make converts (among)
act as a missionary
crusade
campaign
win over
recruit
proselyte
preach the Christian gospel.
"the Church's mission to evangelize and declare the faith"

I guess atheists are now evangelizing for Christianity? And all along I thought it was the FSM.

[aries63]

Originally Posted by LearnMe

Seems to prove out the fact that the less religious exposure at a young age, the less likely one will become religious. In part because with a non-religious upbringing there isn't the "fear factor" instilled in kids at a young age. A factor that is psychologically not easy to shake even as we get older. It seems many people raised to "fear God" or hell or instilled with the concern about not making their way to heaven have a difficult time coming to think otherwise. I know it worked with me for a good long time during my childhood anyway...

Is this a fact? Can you cite a source? I'm curious. Do you mean religious exposure from family, or culture in general?

An atheist coworker of mine was greatly surprised by her daughter, who wanted to attend church with one of her friends around the age of 10, and then continued into adulthood. She didn't understand where her daughter's spiritual impulse came from, since it didn't come from her or her husband. She did then recognize her daughter as "spiritual" if not religious. I think kids not raised in a religious family might just as well become curious about the religious experiences of their peers, and perhaps perceive that they're missing out on something or suspect their parents have blind spots.

[Northsouth]

Originally Posted by LearnMe

I have found myself reflecting on my interest in participating in this forum, and how some people can't understand what an atheist is doing here in the first place. Why do I exchange thoughts, opinions, facts, reason and logic with so many people who are obviously here because they are religious? Unlike me. Why all the poking and prodding with questions? Why do I bother considering the thoughts, opinions and beliefs of religious people?

Giving this some thought, I have to admit that at least part of my interest is born from an age-old challenge of overcoming what I was taught as a very young person. There is an element of danger that was always instilled in me about even suggesting there is no god. Religious people will often reinforce that fear in one way or another. Imagine; concern about eternal damnation, hell, or worse. Missing out on heaven...

Having grown up with a real sense about all that, who among you can really know what it takes to consider and actually disconnect from those sorts of thoughts and beliefs? Not to be weighed by fear or intimidation or what one is supposed to think and believe according to so many others. Of course, now I am an atheist, so I have come to terms with the reasons why I am an atheist. Still, at the same time given the gravity of being wrong about this sort of thing, why would any atheist not be interested in making sure they didn't miss something? Are not missing something?

It's always an interesting experience to consider all the thinking, experiences and beliefs of others in any case, and who knows? Maybe some day someone will be able to come up with something that will make believers of all atheists. I certainly don't want to miss out on that occasion if it ever comes to be.

So is it fair, do you understand, why an atheist like me likes to visit this forum on a regular basis? Aside from all the other reasons I take some pleasure from this forum, is not the above explanation plenty good enough all considered?

I know, atheists apparently don't have inquiring minds. I'm curious and interested in religion, other than Christianity, but I will debate a Christian if I feel there is something to be learned from it. I highly doubt it but just in case. Reflect away, but don't spend too much time trying to figure out why this interests you. It's simple.....it's interesting to you, that's all that matters. And that you learn something.

As a former Christian, it can literally drive a person mad trying to decipher the numerous teachings. Who's right or more accurately, to what varying degrees are they wrong? To me, no religion has it right because there is no god to consider. I don't share your optimism about one day all atheists might believe due to some 'miraculous' knowledge that the majority of mankind could see all along, but we couldn't. No. I'm not here because I think I missed something....I take that back.....I am here because I did miss something.

I missed a normal life, free from religion if I wanted, without horrible consequences. I stated this before but I'm here to learn. After many years of being in a bubble I am free to pursue knowledge. Other religions are one of the main things that interest me.

I have not read the whole thread but I'm thinking that your last question/statement is a very hard NO.

[phetaroi]

Originally Posted by aries63

Is this a fact? Can you cite a source? I'm curious. Do you mean religious exposure from family, or culture in general?

An atheist coworker of mine was greatly surprised by her daughter, who wanted to attend church with one of her friends around the age of 10, and then continued into adulthood. She didn't understand where her daughter's spiritual impulse came from, since it didn't come from her or her husband. She did then recognize her daughter as "spiritual" if not religious. I think kids not raised in a religious family might just as well become curious about the religious experiences of their peers, and perhaps perceive that they're missing out on something or suspect their parents have blind spots.

Well, Aires, in your first paragraph you ask, "Is this a fact? Can you cite a source?" Fair enough.

But we can ask you the same about your second paragraph. Is this a fact? Can you cite a source?" Or is it only the non-christian that has to cite sources?

[mordant]

Originally Posted by aries63

An atheist coworker of mine was greatly surprised by her daughter, who wanted to attend church with one of her friends around the age of 10, and then continued into adulthood. She didn't understand where her daughter's spiritual impulse came from, since it didn't come from her or her husband. She did then recognize her daughter as "spiritual" if not religious. I think kids not raised in a religious family might just as well become curious about the religious experiences of their peers, and perhaps perceive that they're missing out on something or suspect their parents have blind spots.

My stepdaughter was interested in Christianity at a young age and my wife, despite not being a believer, had no issue with it. She bought her a children's bible and read stories to her from it at bedtime, etc. Daughter eventually became involved in a Presbyterian church, went through catechism in her senior year in high school, and to everyone's surprise, presented her conclusion at the end of that process that there is no god. She has to my knowledge never attended church since.

In her case I think the daughter has always had an abreactive stance toward her mother and probably her interest was a combination of being not-Mom and going to the church her biological father attended. Also, daughter is very social and extroverted and the church met some of those needs. But in the end the truth claims did not hold water for her just the same.

If the outcome had been different and she had remained religious, it wouldn't perturb us; that is her business, not ours. I'm sure these things go both ways for different people.

[aries63]

Originally Posted by phetaroi

Well, Aires, in your first paragraph you ask, "Is this a fact? Can you cite a source?" Fair enough.

But we can ask you the same about your second paragraph. Is this a fact? Can you cite a source?" Or is it only the non-christian that has to cite sources?

Well, phetaroi, I didn't state it as fact. Note the use of the words "might" and "perhaps." As I highlighted in the OP's post, a claim was made "the fact that...". Or do you want me to show a source for the story of my coworker's daughter?

I wonder how many atheists in this thread who were raised with religion and then rejected it, would have behaved had they been raised in secular households without religion. Would some have been attracted to religion by nature, in the absence of nurture? Is there a spiritual vacuum that a certain inquisitive nature abhors?

[phetaroi]

Originally Posted by aries63

I didn't state it as fact. Note the use of the words "might" and "perhaps."

My point remains. Keep the standards the same for both sides. It's called a principle.