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The question still stands--waiting for an answer from a Christian.
Are you really so blind?
Your first post on this thread was on CHRISTMAS -- one of the most significant Christian Holy Days of the year -- and expect CHRISTIANS to respond to you?
It's not about Christians not being "brave" enough to respond to you. It's about having better things to do/more important things to do on Christmas day -- which, fell on a SUNDAY -- and the day after Christmas, than to get into another tedious repetitive debate with you.
The point is that it’s silly to take potshots at “pagans” when your own religion appropriated many of their trappings in order to attract followers (of course, all religions engage in this practice to varying degrees). I also linked you to an authoritative source that can explain this in far more (and better) detail. Whether you read it is up to you.
Happy Boxing Day to all, and to all a good afternoon!
Moderator cut: Personal attacks removed.
No such thing what you speak about, unless you are talking about the Catholic denomination.
Last edited by mensaguy; 12-26-2022 at 01:58 PM..
Reason: Edited instead of deleting.
Your first post on this thread was on CHRISTMAS -- one of the most significant Christian Holy Days of the year -- and expect CHRISTIANS to respond to you?
It's not about Christians not being "brave" enough to respond to you. It's about having better things to do/more important things to do on Christmas day -- which, fell on a SUNDAY -- and the day after Christmas, than to get into another tedious repetitive debate with you.
That's not a response to the question, Mink. Give me a response to the question and please back it with evidence.
Can you refute Fact 1?
FACT 1: There is no historical evidence for Jesus outside the New Testament
What Chrust Jesus did is he stepped into God's Spiritual Realm to intercede for humanity and left behavioral code based on universal agape. From beginning of humanity that is a resposibility of tribal shamans to enter spirit world and put light on afterlife.Christ Jesus is archetypal 'shaman' for the entire humanity. It really does not matter if there was Jesus Christ exactly the way the Gospels speak about him or not. I choose to know Jesus Christ.
You need to get out more. Discover, for example, great swaths of lands that are not christian oriented at all. Take virtually all of Southeast Asia, South Asia, most of the Far East.
I'm going to keep this thread on topic. I won't be making any excuses or explanations for why I'm doing what I'm doing as I did in Part 1. I'm going to present a series of FACTS. These are uncontested. No scholar disagrees with them that I have found. I'm interested in debating one or more Christians on them:
FACT 1: There is no historical evidence for Jesus outside the New Testament--the New Testament scholars agreeing that the New Testament is a religious manifesto with fictional characters set within a historical period much like Gone With the Wind being a fictional story set within the Civil War.
Any Christians who disagree with this fact? Please tell us so and why. Silence is agreement that this is a fact. I'll give a reasonable amount of time for a response, elaborate on the fact and then move on to FACT 2.
Hello, myuen, I'd be happy to debate you. I see you are a newbie. This will be a civilized polite discussion on my part.
Yes, I contend as do several Biblical scholars many with PhD's in ancient religions that the gospels Jesus was a mythical person POSSIBLY BASED ON A HISTORICAL ORDINARY PERSON(S) I named 3 possible ones earlier in post No 13.
1. Yehuda of Galilee (6 C.E.),
2. Theudas (44 C.E.),
3. Benjamin the Egyptian (60 C.E.)
These three are historical figures that were regarded as Christs (the Chosen One; the Anointed one) and were crucified by the Romans. The Jesus character of the gospels may have been based on one or more of them.
The gospels are NOT regard as historical records. They are regarded as testimonies of faith set within a historical period much like Gone With The Wind.
The profession of faith that you can relate with Jesus is NOT a historic fact.
From the looks of your statements I sense it is you who is not up to a debate but I will try.
Still waiting, Myuen.
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte
That's not a response to the question, Mink. Give me a response to the question and please back it with evidence.
Can you refute Fact 1?
FACT 1: There is no historical evidence for Jesus outside the New Testament
I guess there isn't anything specific in the bible about rudeness, but...
No, he’s right. I’m a blind deaf-mute whose appendages are being manipulated by the ghost of Christopher Hitchens to spew atheist propaganda.
In all seriousness—and circling back to the premise of the OP (however much this horse has been beaten beyond recognition)—my feelings align with mordant’s. Like most biblical figures, the evidence of a singular non-apocryphal Jesus who lived in Judea and amassed a large following around the dawn of the common era is scant at best. And his alleged existence coincided with a time and place where there should have been contemporaneous historical records of his life and works (without even getting into the question of the divinity of such a man).
I had originally wanted to do a Part 2 on this but I'd like to present my additional evidence in the form of a discussion with Christians. The problem has been NO Christian has been willing to step forth and defend their savior god when I extend this invitation to them. So I figure the best way to approach the issue at this point is to just throw it out there as a new thread and see if anyone in the Christian camp is brave enough to take on a friendly debate.
My contention: the Jesus of the gospels is a mythical character pure and simple. History shows he never existed. Any Christians want to contest my claim? Step forth.
Okay, I’ll bite. I’m Christian and your OP clearly doesn’t understand what it means to be Christian or, even, religious.
To contend that Jesus doesn’t exist and, then, ask that a Christian “prove” it would be like asking any religious person to prove that God (in any form) exists. The whole point of faith is that one believes without proof (or what most people would call proof, ie. scientific facts).
Do I believe that Jesus exists? Yes. Do I have proof? Yes. Is that proof in accordance with the scientific method? No. Such is faith.
My question to you is why are you focusing specifically on Jesus Christ? Why not just ask any one, of any faith, to prove that their God/gods exist? They are, essentially, the same question.
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