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Old 01-22-2023, 10:35 AM
 
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Originally Posted by ElijahAstin View Post
People are well aware of the Kent State shootings. My stepmother was actually a Kent State student when it happened (although I knew about this major historical event long before her specific connection). The shootings are inexcusable, to be sure, but they were in no way premeditated. The National Guard units dispatched on campus were poorly trained in crowd control. They should have shot into the air—and not into the crowd—when students began throwing rocks. The protestors and soldiers actually had peaceful interactions in the weeks leading up to the tragedy. Throwing rocks at armed combatants isn’t my idea of valor or intelligence, but it certainly shouldn’t result in a death sentence, and most of the people injured and killed were not engaging in such behavior.

Two of the students killed, William Knox Schroeder and Sandra Lee Scheuer, were non-participants who were simply walking to class. The other two fatal shooting victims, Allison Krause and Jeffrey Glenn Miller, were involved in the protests. As an interesting footnote, although Kent State’s campus was 5% Jewish at most, all of the fatal shooting victims were Jews except Schroeder.

Also, LBJ did not end the Vietnam war—far from it. He was disillusioned enough to not run for a third term, sure, but Nixon kept the “adventure” going through his entire presidency and did not begin scaling back American military presence until the very end of his tenure. It wasn’t until halfway through the Ford Administration when America departed Vietnam once and for all.
Interesting. I had no idea...

I'm curious how anyone would come to know those killed were Jewish. I've never seen that reported or mentioned before. I've also never thought about this tragedy as anything other than just a tragedy among too many just so very hard to believe. Regardless who were the victims...

"What if you knew her and
Found her dead on the ground?"

Lyrics from one of my all time favorite songs, and somewhat coincidental as the death of Crosby is still very fresh in the news. I suspect maybe one of yours too, since I know we have some very similar taste in music. A good Sunday to you as I'm signing off now to get on with our BSB and then the 9r game. Fingers crossed all goes well. For you and yours too. Cheers!
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Old 01-22-2023, 10:46 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,151 posts, read 23,799,416 times
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There are wars that, in my view, would be justified based on religious principles. For example, some nation should have stepped in and ended the 'killing fields of Cambodia' before Pol Pot exterminated 1.5-3 million Cambodians. Shame on the world.
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Old 01-22-2023, 10:47 AM
 
Location: Elsewhere
87,993 posts, read 83,805,998 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LearnMe View Post
Not just THEIR lands...

What of all the well documented history related to how Christians invaded native lands in the Americas? As also just part of the story.

Why not oppose war actions more? Perhaps because we're far too inclined toward war for purposes of advancing our own interests, and because we can...
QB is asking why Christians don't oppose war more.
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Old 01-22-2023, 10:50 AM
 
Location: Elsewhere
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Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
One of the easiest ways to determine if a post is off-topic is to see if there is any mention of religion and/or spiritualism in the post.
Thank you. Yes, please, let's get back to the topic question. This is drifting into a discussion more appropriate for the History forum.
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Old 01-22-2023, 11:05 AM
 
Location: North by Northwest
9,309 posts, read 12,900,355 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LearnMe View Post
Interesting. I had no idea...

I'm curious how anyone would come to know those killed were Jewish. I've never seen that reported or mentioned before. I've also never thought about this tragedy as anything other than just a tragedy among too many just so very hard to believe. Regardless who were the victims...

"What if you knew her and
Found her dead on the ground?"

Lyrics from one of my all time favorite songs, and somewhat coincidental as the death of Crosby is still very fresh in the news. I suspect maybe one of yours too, since I know we have some very similar taste in music. A good Sunday to you as I'm signing off now to get on with our BSB and then the 9r game. Fingers crossed all goes well. For you and yours too. Cheers!
It wouldn’t be hard since the three Jewish students killed came from Jewish families and received Jewish burials. I am not even remotely suggesting that the religious backgrounds of these three students has any bearing on the magnitude of the tragedy, and I think you know that. Again, it’s an interesting footnote that defies statistical chance. More of the protesting students were from Jewish backgrounds, I imagine, given the political proclivities of that demographic, which perhaps can explain Krause and Miller. Scheuer just had the bad luck of being a bystander in the wrong place in the wrong time (as did Schroeder).

Trying to bring the thread back in a more clearly religious and spiritual direction, here’s an interesting (Jewish Daily) Forward article published on the 50th anniversary of the shootings. Krause’s death prompted her previously pro-war father to reverse his stance and become an anti-Vietnam activist.

ETA: While they’re not in my personal top 10, I do enjoy CSN and/or Y (of whom Y is probably my favorite), and was saddened to hear about David Crosby’s passing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801 View Post
QB is asking why Christians don't oppose war more.
I took her post to cover religious and spiritual people in general.

Last edited by ElijahAstin; 01-22-2023 at 11:29 AM..
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Old 01-22-2023, 11:21 AM
 
427 posts, read 124,083 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801 View Post
No. We're not talking slogans and memes here. I am talking about using our power to control and disrupt the lives of people in other countries to increase the wealth of those in power and/or those who put them there. Something that could be opposed by Christians.

This thread isn't about America. This is about the principles and actions of Christians.



Are you making a distinction between America and Christians as in separation of state from church? I am not defending Christians who are definitely front and center of the problem of using "power to control and disrupt the lives of people in other countries". Christians, in my opinion, are culpable because they not only form the majority (63% of the population) but also responsible for allowing the country to become, in every which way, as monstrous as you have described.



The first to be placed in the firing line are Christian mothers. Why have they not opposed American foreign wars more?
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Old 01-22-2023, 11:59 AM
 
Location: Elsewhere
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElijahAstin View Post
It wouldn’t be hard since the three Jewish students killed came from Jewish families and received Jewish burials. I am not even remotely suggesting that the religious backgrounds of these three students has any bearing on the magnitude of the tragedy, and I think you know that. Again, it’s an interesting footnote that defies statistical chance. More of the protesting students were from Jewish backgrounds, I imagine, given the political proclivities of that demographic, which perhaps can explain Krause and Miller. Scheuer just had the bad luck of being a bystander in the wrong place in the wrong time (as did Schroeder).

Trying to bring the thread back in a more clearly religious and spiritual direction, here’s an interesting (Jewish Daily) Forward article published on the 50th anniversary of the shootings. Krause’s death prompted her previously pro-war father to reverse his stance and become an anti-Vietnam activist.

ETA: While they’re not in my personal top 10, I do enjoy CSN and/or Y (of whom Y is probably my favorite), and was saddened to hear about David Crosby’s passing.


I took her post to cover religious and spiritual people in general.
Yes, you are correct. That is what the title says, not specifically Christians. My mistake.
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Old 01-22-2023, 12:47 PM
 
Location: Southern California
2,955 posts, read 928,365 times
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Originally Posted by LearnMe View Post
Perhaps someone or something or some country needs to do it, but do it better.
There is no one better at this point to step up and do it. No volunteers to die for others, for other countries, for others in despair. The ones who would step up and volunteer to do it are the ones with demented ideas of oppression, control and power. No freedom. It's easy to comment from the side and point to mistakes. Harder to actually do it yourself.

Deep religious and spiritual people pray daily for world peace. In private. They send peaceful vibrations in this world and counteract the evil vibrations. They do that not only during prayers but also during their other activities. Work, social interactions, every hour of their life. The ten Commandments, Yama and Niyama. They are not the ones to go out and scream and protest in big groups on the streets to "change the world".
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Old 01-22-2023, 12:54 PM
 
15,801 posts, read 6,861,437 times
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Originally Posted by farm fatale View Post
There is no one better at this point to step up and do it. No volunteers to die for others, for other countries, for others in despair. The ones who would step up and volunteer to do it are the ones with demented ideas of oppression, control and power. No freedom. It's easy to comment from the side and point to mistakes. Harder to actually do it yourself.

Deep religious and spiritual people pray daily for world peace. In private. They send peaceful vibrations in this world and counteract the evil vibrations. They do that not only during prayers but also during their other activities. Work, social interactions, every hour of their life. The ten Commandments, Yama and Niyama. They are not the ones to go out and scream and protest in big groups on the streets to "change the world".
The buddhists monks who immolated themselves were protesting the takeover of Tibet by China. The US is not the saviour of the world although we would like to think of ourselves as such while we send our men and women to go devastate other people’s lands and lives. The only result is total devastation for them and economic prosperity for a few of us, the corporations and those they buy to win elections. How soon we forget Iraq and the lies.
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Old 01-22-2023, 02:25 PM
 
6,366 posts, read 2,881,223 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QuakerBaker View Post
How can we teach our children that violence is not the answer in their own lives, when we endorse a government that is so quick to use violence to handle its own disputes?

I don't think that the human race does enough thinking about actual killing. It's sanitized for us by the media and politicians who push forward an active military industrial complex.

Our government kills thousands of innocents with drone strikes and most don't make the headlines. Spiritual and religious people too often don't know, or do know and find it acceptable. I understand some may say it is a necessary evil, but when our government has 11,000 to 21,000 causalities of innocent civilians using the drone strikes, it is time to reevaluate our policies and stand by our morals...what is religion without morals?

"Thou shalt not kill."

""An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth.' But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also." -Jesus

Quaker Norman Morrison set fire to himself to protest the Vietnam War, killing himself and leaving behind children. I disagree with that kind of extreme action, but people needed to stand up against that war. Today in Vietnam, there is a city named after him that lives on.

A very long time ago, in 2019, I had attended a drone strike protest....only a few people showed up and I was the only one with a sign focusing on the religious reasons for our government to not behave in such a way. In 2021, our government killed 10 innocent people with a drone strike by using an out of control policy...many children....and I attended another protest, with just a handful of the same people from 2019 and although they welcomed me and my religious message they wanted to know why more very religious people like me don't show up. I didn't know what to say.

It just seems to me like it is our responsibility to make our government follow proper morals and the most basic moral is opposing such violence.

I am sorry if this post crosses a line and do not mean for it to be bad. Please delete moderators if I am inappropriate here.

When God said an eye for an eye--it did not mean go take your brothers eye, because then you would be no different than him. It actually meant-justice will prevail. Jesus showed this at Matt 5:38-- like you posted.
Few realize the biggest atrocitys of -The rev war, the civil war, ww1,ww2 is that the blind guide clergy's allowed their own brothers in Christ to stand on both sides killing each other--not in love. And had the gaul to pray to the same God on both sides telling each side God was with them. It cannot get any darker than that.
Jesus showed when Peter cut off the ear of his enemy, he forbade it. Why? Because they were to beat their swords into plowshares. Isaiah 2:4
Never would God allow the brothers in Christ to stand on both sides killing one another.
Self defense is one thing, but to go to another country and they actually did nothing to us, is not self defense. More like a forced self defense.
This world is blind-2Cor 4:4--
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