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Clearly both resurrection and reincarnation ARE compatible. In Judaism.
Also as stated earlier, your Christian views differ.
yes you clearly stated facts about reincarnation, here is verbatim quote from your post: "It is a fact that in Reality, forget religion, in reality either resurrection or reincarnation can be true, but not both." No religion or person is the arbiter or authority on what "reality" is. Just like no religion is the arbiter or authority on what divinity is. Beliefs are what a person believes to be true. Those are my beliefs. You are free to hold your own beliefs. That's what freedom of choice is, and that's what freedom of religion is.
I have no intention to argue scripture with you because (a) it doesn't matter to me what you believe, and (b)Judaism does not proselytize and neither do I. However I will point out when there are gross inaccuracies stated about Judaism, as I have done here. You are not a spokesperson for God's treatment of the Jews. We have the Torah for that, thank you.
Good grief. Are you unable to understand me? I'm not talking about religious beliefs. I'm talking about reality, or supposed reality. IF . . .IF both resurrection and reincarnation were realities you would have one soul not only being reincarnated as x number of different people in different incarnations, but there would come a time when the resurrection would occur at which time that singular soul that had been reincarnated x number of times would now have to be resurrected as x number of people. One soul existing as x number of resurrected people. It's an absurdity.
Yes, of course I stated facts and I just stated again how absurd it is to believe that a singular soul would not only be reincarnated x number of times but eventually be resurrected as x number of different people.
Now a person might choose to believe in either resurrection or reincarnation, but for a person to believe in both requires an unthinking, illogical mind.
And I made no inaccuracies about Judaism. All I said concerning Judaism is that belief in resurrection was a late development within Judaism and I gave a basis for the rise of that belief.
And I'm sure you will reply to this because you can't let it go. You're a person who has to have the last word.
Oh, as for the Torah, it's a minority report and does not reflect the beliefs of the ordinary ancient Hebrew of the 2nd Temple period, many of whom believed that Yahweh had a wife or consort.
And it wasn't written by Moses either as the text itself indicates.
Ah, but now this is getting off topic so I'll just leave it at that and you can have the last word.
Last edited by Michael Way; 01-23-2023 at 08:52 PM..
Good grief. Are you unable to understand me? I'm not talking about religious beliefs. I'm talking about reality, or supposed reality. IF . . .IF both resurrection and reincarnation were realities you would have one soul not only being reincarnated as x number of different people in different incarnations, but there would come a time when the resurrection would occur at which time that singular soul that had been reincarnated x number of times would now have to be resurrected as x number of people. One soul existing as x number of resurrected people. It's an absurdity.
Yes, of course I stated facts and I just stated again how absurd it is to believe that a singular soul would not only be reincarnated x number of times but eventually be resurrected as x number of different people.
Now a person might choose to believe in either resurrection or reincarnation, but for a person to believe in both requires an unthinking, illogical mind.
And I made no inaccuracies about Judaism. All I said concerning Judaism is that belief in resurrection was a late development within Judaism and I gave a basis for the rise of that belief. And I'm sure you will reply to this because you can't let it go. You're a person who has to have the last word.Oh, as fo r the Torah, it's a minority report and does not reflect the beliefs of the ordinary ancient Hebrew of the 2nd Temple period, many of whom believed that Yahweh had a wife or consort.
you are talking about your beliefs about reality.
other people have different beliefs about reality.
you have your own reasons for what you believe and why.
others also have their reasons for what they believe and why.
i don't call your beliefs "absurd". i don't use derisive pejoratives to dismiss the sacred texts in the religion you identify with. Nor do i accuse you of having an "unthinking illogical mind." Because i recognize that everyone is free to choose their own beliefs. My observation though is that at some very basic level there is a visceral intolerance for those holding or expressing different beliefs. It seems to genuinely bother you.
That is something i can not fathom.
Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 01-23-2023 at 09:13 PM..
The plan of the living God of the Bible has no plan for reincarnation, so if the Jewish people put it in there than they were in error with the plan of God ....... God came to the earth through Jesus Christ in incarnation with is not reincarnation....... So if reincarnation make sense than it does not come from the living God of the Bible and probably comes from a lower god of the world spirits
Which makes more SENSE to you? Heaven/Hell or Reincarnation?
Poor question because it ties Hell to Heaven. IMO the only one of them that exists is Heaven and we can see it. Hell does not exist other than what is here on earth. Dante's imaginative nonsense IS absurd, Tzaph so I apologize to anyone who actually believes in it! I cannot rule out reincarnation, but I do not believe it. I believe any further refinement of our Spirit occurs in the spirit realm, not on earth. The truth is no one actually knows so it is arrogant to pretend we do.
Poor question because it ties Hell to Heaven. IMO the only one of them that exists is Heaven and we can see it. Hell does not exist other than what is here on earth. Dante's imaginative nonsense IS absurd, Tzaph so I apologize to anyone who actually believes in it! I cannot rule out reincarnation, but I do not believe it. I believe any further refinement of our Spirit occurs in the spirit realm, not on earth. The truth is no one actually knows so it is arrogant to pretend we do.
I’d like to think, and hope, that Hell does not exist either.
Or at the most, it is some type of cleansing or purification process.
Others don’t agree;
How about we say that none of them truly makes sense. We have testimonies of both but is anyone really going to trust what people have to say when most are heavily biased in favor of what they are espousing? The Christians are especially bad at this because they have an agenda to get as many people converted to Jesus as they possibly can so their so-called NDE's are going to be 99% a testimony of having experienced hell and the devil and monsters and fire and torture and descriptions as bad as they can make it sound like this fellow:
Wow, thrill. You really DO have an anti-Christian agenda. How about looking at the facts instead of your own prejudices?
FACT: People from all walks of life have reported having an NDE. Christians, Muslims, non-denominational theists, pagans and yes, even atheists have reported NDE's. Children, the elderly, the blind and other disabled folks have also reported NDE's.
FACT: MOST people who have reported their NDE had a positive experience. While negative NDE's do occur, they seem to be rare.
FACT: Of the people who reported having a negative NDE, SOME of them were Christian. Others were not.
FACT: Of the Christians who reported having a negative NDE, not all of them reported seeing the devil, monsters, fire and torture.
These silly things usually end with "Don't end up in hell. Accept Jesus as your personal savior." Anyone going to try to convince me this idiot doesn't have an agenda? Silly to do when Jesus never even existed. He's just a myth.
So, because ONE person posts a Youtube video about a hellacious NDE, ALL Christians are the same way?
I’d like to think, and hope, that Hell does not exist either.
Or at the most, it is some type of cleansing or purification process.
Others don’t agree;
I’ve had a “fundie” experience in my lifetime so I’m not exactly dumb on The Bible and basics of Christianity.
I will admit though I’m fuzzy on the other Major ones when it comes to what they preach about the afterlife.
That being said and I think this is my final opinion while both are probable, reincarnation makes more sense.
I mean if nothing else, don’t we if we are buried or ashes scattered etc come back as plants if nothing else because plants are living organisms anyway? Not trying to be funny here.
Actually, there's both. You die, are resurrected, judgement. Them a new earth is created, city of God comes down and those born on the earth who die before 100, will be considered "Young" but people will be in a sense "Reincarnated"
I'm sure someone has already pointed this out but there is not a "neither one" choice. Geez people why does it have to be anything? Why can't you all be satisfied in not knowing? Because NO ONE does. Christians are the worst for claiming they have the "truth" and the only way to god is through Jesus. Proof of any of those claims? Nope.
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Which makes more SENSE to you? Heaven/Hell or Reincarnation?
