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View Poll Results: What seems to make more sense in The Afterlife
Reincarnation 10 41.67%
Heaven/Hell 14 58.33%
Voters: 24. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-22-2023, 09:28 PM
 
Location: Moose Jaw, in between the Moose's butt and nose.
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I’ve had a “fundie” experience in my lifetime so I’m not exactly dumb on The Bible and basics of Christianity.
I will admit though I’m fuzzy on the other Major ones when it comes to what they preach about the afterlife.
That being said and I think this is my final opinion while both are probable, reincarnation makes more sense.
I mean if nothing else, don’t we if we are buried or ashes scattered etc come back as plants if nothing else because plants are living organisms anyway? Not trying to be funny here.
To only have 1 shot at life just seems too extreme. Like if one dies because of murder or a horrible cancer, it just seems like an unfair way to go out of your possibly 1 shot at life.
Or again if you went out (died) in a horrible fashion and because you didn’t accept Christ and you only had 1 chance (if there’s no reincarnation) to do it, now you’re going to burn and scream and cry in a pit of hell forever?
That while a foundation of The Christian faith from a neutral standpoint seems pretty demented frankly.
If one has ever seen (think Dennis Quaid was in it) A Dog’s Life, well, that movie didn’t seem like total fantasy when it comes to indirectly addressing the Reincarnation issue.
Thoughts?

Last edited by beenhereandthere; 01-22-2023 at 10:54 PM..
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Old 01-22-2023, 10:16 PM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
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Christianity, and the Bible, teaches resurrection. Resurrection and reincarnation are mutually exclusive and incompatible because (in Jewish thought) resurrection referred to physical resurrection - a standing up again of the body. If reincarnation were true, then which of the x number of reincarnations of a specific person would get resurrected? In reincarnation the same soul gets reincarnated into different bodies. The same soul could not be resurrected into each of the reincarnations of that person. To do so would require either a division or a multiplication of the soul so that the same soul could somehow reside in each of the reincarnated bodies that in the end would all be resurrected.

While resurrection was a late development in Jewish thought, one of the factors that gave rise to the concept of resurrection was that since God is just, in order to be fair, in view of the unjust adversities the Jews were going though, God would have to resurrect the Jews in order to set right the wrongs they had endured. From there the concept of resurrection developed.

The Jewish answer to the unfair things in this life then was resurrection . . .not reincarnation. Of course, not all Jews, the Sadducees for example, believed in resurrection or even life after death.

The disciples of Jesus, and a former enemy of Jesus - Paul, truly believed they saw the risen Jesus, physically resurrected after having been crucified.

Last edited by Michael Way; 01-22-2023 at 10:27 PM..
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Old 01-22-2023, 10:16 PM
 
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Reincarnation
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Old 01-22-2023, 10:45 PM
 
Location: NSW
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I find the idea of reincarnation pretty hard to get my head around.
Heaven and Hell make more sense, even if the latter seems very harsh in most circumstances.
The Soul is our eternal being, but still must face an external judgement, whether we like it or not.
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Old 01-22-2023, 11:25 PM
 
427 posts, read 124,083 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Derek41 View Post
I find the idea of reincarnation pretty hard to get my head around.
Heaven and Hell make more sense, even if the latter seems very harsh in most circumstances.
The Soul is our eternal being, but still must face an external judgement, whether we like it or not.

Why is reincarnation difficult for you?
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Old 01-22-2023, 11:37 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Way View Post
Christianity, and the Bible, teaches resurrection. Resurrection and reincarnation are mutually exclusive and incompatible because (in Jewish thought) resurrection referred to physical resurrection - a standing up again of the body. If reincarnation were true, then which of the x number of reincarnations of a specific person would get resurrected? In reincarnation the same soul gets reincarnated into different bodies. The same soul could not be resurrected into each of the reincarnations of that person. To do so would require either a division or a multiplication of the soul so that the same soul could somehow reside in each of the reincarnated bodies that in the end would all be resurrected.

While resurrection was a late development in Jewish thought, one of the factors that gave rise to the concept of resurrection was that since God is just, in order to be fair, in view of the unjust adversities the Jews were going though, God would have to resurrect the Jews in order to set right the wrongs they had endured. From there the concept of resurrection developed.

The Jewish answer to the unfair things in this life then was resurrection . . .not reincarnation. Of course, not all Jews, the Sadducees for example, believed in resurrection or even life after death.

The disciples of Jesus, and a former enemy of Jesus - Paul, truly believed they saw the risen Jesus, physically resurrected after having been crucified.
post above is WRONG about Judaism.
what you are saying about Judaism is inaccurate.

Judaism has both reincarnation (Gilgulei HaNeshamot) AND resurrection of the dead (Olam HaTechiyah).
No, in Judaism they are NOT incompatible. they are both present. They are two entirely different concepts.
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Old 01-22-2023, 11:46 PM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel View Post
post above is WRONG about Judaism.
what you are saying about Judaism is inaccurate.

Judaism has both reincarnation (gilgulim) AND resurrection of the dead (in olam haba).
No, in Judaism they are NOT incompatible. they are both present. They are two entirely different concepts.
No, everything I said is correct. I never said that Judaism didn't have a belief in reincarnation. And I'm referring to 2nd Temple period Judaism. Not Rabbinical Judaism. Though it is true that like Christianity Judaism has various beliefs. But again, reincarnation is simply not compatible with resurrection. They cannot both be true in reality. It has to be one or the other . . . or neither one.
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Old 01-22-2023, 11:48 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Way View Post
I'm referring to 2nd Temple period Judaism. Not Rabbinical Judaism. Though it is true that like Christianity Judaism has various beliefs. But again, reincarnation is simply not compatible with resurrection. They cannot both be true in reality. It has to be one or the other . . . or neither one.
You are speaking from a Christian perspective.

However in Judaism they both exist and both are compatible.
Judaism has both.


A gentle reminder: The views of Christianity are not applicable to Judaism.
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Old 01-22-2023, 11:57 PM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel View Post
You are speaking from a Christian perspective.


However in Judaism they are compatible.
Judaism has both.
No, I'm not speaking from a Christian perspective. It is a fact that resurrection was a later development within 2nd Temple Judaism. It is a fact that Jewish persecution was a factor in the idea of resurrection for the reason I already stated. It is a fact that in Reality, forget religion, in reality either resurrection or reincarnation can be true, but not both. And the possibility exists that neither one is true IN REALITY. In the real world without regard for religious beliefs.
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Old 01-23-2023, 12:05 AM
 
21,869 posts, read 19,019,005 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Way View Post
No, I'm not speaking from a Christian perspective. It is a fact that resurrection was a later development within 2nd Temple Judaism. It is a fact that Jewish persecution was a factor in the idea of resurrection for the reason I already stated. It is a fact that in Reality, forget religion, in reality either resurrection or reincarnation can be true, but not both. And the possibility exists
that neither one is true IN REALITY. In the real world without regard for religious beliefs.
i can assure you that just as your own Christian views and understanding make sense to you,
so too do my own Jewish views and understanding make sense to me.
and that is the topic of this thread, what makes more sense to you.

Resurrection of the dead is a core doctrine of Jewish theology. Similarly, reincarnation is is an integral part of Jewish belief that has always been around and is firmly rooted in source-verses. Now you know. So let's make a deal: i won't claim that your views opinions and beliefs "can't be true in reality" and you afford me the same respect and regard.

Nor will i (inaccurately) claim that views opinions and beliefs are "facts". Because i know the difference between facts and opinions views beliefs. i am sure that readers are getting quite a chuckle right about now, if not a full blown belly laugh, about a post claiming to know "facts" about resurrection of the dead and reincarnation. myself included.

Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 01-23-2023 at 12:37 AM..
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