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You seem to have an incredible reputation, man but I've never seen you in here so obviously you've earned it elsewhere, no doubt in concert in deals with thousands of other members you all trade reps with. :
Well, thank you, however, you've been here 5 years longer.
Join Date: Jun 2013
7,359 posts, read 5,498,573 times
Reputation: 13728
I guess I've preferred to spend my time in areas I could contribute to. In this area, I'll admit, it's usually a "quip" drive by. There's really no reason I'd discuss anything with you. Your stand is one in opposition to religion. The waste I see, is your constant and rabid hate for religion period.
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte
I'm retired so the accusation is I have too much time on my hands. Maybe. I can't work because I'm retired and obviously if I had to work I wouldn't have the time to spend in here. So why don't you pray to the Lord that he finds me a job and leads me out of here so I don't lead good Christians onto the shoals of spiritual destruction.
Sounds like someone whose happy being a poster with a lot of knowledge, but using it for a useless purpose.
Leaving Jesus aside for a moment, the human condition always and every time ends with death and destruction.
Do you dispute this?
Quote:
Originally Posted by EscAlaMike
I asked you this is another thread, and I don't believe I received an answer.
Why do you perceive living the Christian life as flushing their life down a rat hole?
Could you elaborate on how exactly living a Christian life is "wasting" one's life? What is a Christian missing out on that he could experience if he renounced Christianity? How is the life of a non-Christian more fulfilling than that of a Christian?
I'll deal with both question and try to do it honestly and straightforward, Mike.
First, the hostility from the Christians in here is palpable. Why such hostility from BF and Thoreau and Mike Way, not so much from you, Mink and Mystic though he can be a little caustic at times? I mean this is a discussion forum. If everyone was posting about how they led their Aunt Mildred to the Lord and what position you pray in things would get really dreary in here, wouldn't they--or is this the kind of riveting stuff that keeps Christians glued to their seats coming back for more?
A little controversy is good for any discussion so again I don't get the hostility especially since I have never knowingly told a lie about Christianity that I am aware of. I said there's no secular historical evidence for Jesus, that's the truth. I said gospel writers jimmied the gospels to read how they wanted it to read, that's the truth. I always gave examples eg. Mark long ending was tacked on 300 years after Mark was written by churchmen to work in a command from Jesus they wanted in there to preach to all nations. That's really deceptive stuff from Christianity but it's the truth as well, albeit a drop in a lake of bad stuff the Christian leaders to promote their faith. To quote Jesus, "If I tell the truth why do you not believe me?" John 8:46.
But the Christians in here act like the Pharisees Jesus was talking to:
BF and Thoreau: "Are we not right in saying you are a heretic and have a devil?" John 8:48
Okay, enough levity. To you questions.
The human condition believer or unbeliever is death and right now there's no evidence there's any afterlife waiting for us. I wish to God there WAS evidence, but I am a realist, not someone who operates their life on faith in something for which there is no evidence. When scientists get some evidence there IS an afterlife you'll see me on the frontline in here cheering them on.
Why do I perceive a Christian life as a wasted life. In a nutshell, I perceive that anyone who is running after a god for which there isn't the slightest bit of secular historical evidence he lived, and a ton of evidence he was manufactured I consider that a wasted life. Why is this person spending his life praying and going on pilgrimages and giving away his worldly possessions and slapping himself and feeling guilty when he feels a little lust in his heart when Olivia Dunne wiggles her cute little fanny? Live a little, man! Don't let all these minute little details ruin your life when this life is all you get according to the science. I mean do people actually try to run their entire lives by every single command Jesus gave? And even worse, when it is likely Jesus of the gospels never gave it, it was written in there by anonymous authors with an agenda?????
All I want is for lurkers who are searching around in here for some religion to join to get the entire picture of what Christianity is all about--the little bit of good, the plentiful bad and the Mt Everest of ugly about it before they join. I don't want them three years from now telling their stories about how they made the biggest mistake of their lives becoming Christian like you read on hundreds of ex-Christian websites. You can damn well bet these people would never have gotten the bad and the ugly from people like BF and Thoreau, who try to cover it up every chance they get, which is why they probably hate me so much--ironically EXACTLY like the Pharisees hated Jesus. If after the lurkers hear both sides they still want to join Christianity, hell, I'll buy their first Bible for them.
Join Date: Jun 2013
7,359 posts, read 5,498,573 times
Reputation: 13728
I guess I've preferred to spend my time in areas I could contribute to. In this area, I'll admit, it's usually a "quip" drive by. There's really no reason I'd discuss anything with you. Your stand is one in opposition to religion. The waste I see, is your constant and rabid hate for religion period.
Sounds like someone whose happy being a poster with a lot of knowledge, but using it for a useless purpose.
I feel I'm making a contribution here--a worthwhile one, AAMOF. Let's see if I get this: you'd have nothing to discuss because I am in opposition to religion. Does that mean you're united with religion? Do you think religion provides mankind with something value? What exactly? Do you not see the damage and destruction Christianity brings to millions of lives--people who leave it after a foray into its darkened dungeons and live to tell their stories on hundreds of ex-Christian websites? You stand united with this?
Why such hostility from BF and Thoreau and Mike Way, not so much from you, Mink and Mystic though he can be a little caustic at times?
I appreciate that, sincerely. I do get a bit sarcastic at times, and I do confess to giving my boy phet a hard time every now and then, but I do try to be respectful and civil as you all deserve to be treated with dignity.
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte
Okay, enough levity. To you questions.
The human condition believer or unbeliever is death and right now there's no evidence there's any afterlife waiting for us. I wish to God there WAS evidence, but I am a realist, not someone who operates their life on faith in something for which there is no evidence. When scientists get some evidence there IS an afterlife you'll see me on the frontline in here cheering them on.
Of course you concede that death awaits us all. The "good news" to the believer is that death isn't the end, and there's hope for us all. It's really as simple as that. Even if you don't believe in the Christian hell, it's enough that you at least recognize the reality of the grave. The good news gives us a better hope than the nothingness of the grave.
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte
Why do I perceive a Christian life as a wasted life. In a nutshell, I perceive that anyone who is running after a god for which there isn't the slightest bit of secular historical evidence he lived, and a ton of evidence he was manufactured I consider that a wasted life. Why is this person spending his life praying and going on pilgrimages and giving away his worldly possessions and slapping himself and feeling guilty when he feels a little lust in his heart when Olivia Dunne wiggles her cute little fanny? Live a little, man! Don't let all these minute little details ruin your life when this life is all you get according to the science. I mean do people actually try to run their entire lives by every single command Jesus gave? And even worse, when it is likely Jesus of the gospels never gave it, it was written in there by anonymous authors with an agenda?????
What if we like praying, going on pilgrimages, and being generous with our material abundance? What's the harm to myself or to humanity if I want to do those things? They only lead to a net increase in goodness and joy in the world.
So you want us to be able to lust after our peers without feeling any guilt about it? How is that fair to the one being objectified by said lust? Is that the path to a fuller vision of humanity, or does that make us no better than an animal? There's a better way.
One fellow in here who has invested his entire life in Jesus posted something that really moved me. The subject I recall was "What are you looking forward to" and this fellow posted "I'm just looking forward to being called home and being with my Lord and savior." I was so moved to sympathy for this fellow I nearly broke down and started crying for him. Imagine your greatest ambition in life being to die and go to be with Jesus! And a likely imaginary Jesus at that. What a waste of a good life. So many Christians are like this--nothing to live for so all they have is their ambition to die so they will be with Jesus. I find very few things in this life that are sadder than that.
I don't exactly disagree, but IMO if a person is truly content and even happy in their beliefs, then who am I to disabuse them of something that seems to be working fine for them? If my idealistic notions of good and evil and justice and hope had panned out, or at least had been rationalizable, for all I know I'd still be a Christian. Would the abstraction have started leaking for different reasons? Probably, but maybe not.
My prior / late wife was a Christian to the end (rural Methodist) and her faith was a comfort to her. She didn't agree with my budding apostasy, but she understood why it happened. We loved each other anyway. [shrug]
I don't agree that a life of what I regard as belief in intellectually indefensible nonsense is necessarily a wasted life. When writing programs in the C language, some people put opening braces on their own line, and I don't -- I write my code the way the programming gods (Kernihan & Richie) intended, blast it! That is nothing more than my personal preference and it's not objectively right, but it makes me happy and doesn't offend my sense of decorum. Not everything in life needs an airtight justification. However, I understand that K&R bracing is my preference and I don't seek to shame people with different ideas. Indeed, for the past 15 years I've squinted at code at a company that chose a different standard. I did not choose to die on that hill. I followed company policy.
Thrill will doubtless reply that religious ideation can result in harms, and it can, and does -- but not invariably. If it makes you peaceful to think god is in his heaven and all is right on the earth, and you have some weird (to me) ability to selectively ignore your own perceptual equipment when it contradicts that, then so long as you don't hate or try to control people who don't agree with you, then you can make a positive contribution to other people's lives, and it's all good. Or put another way -- if you are advanced enough to understand that your thoughts are just thoughts and not avatars of capital-T Truth or that your thoughts trump actual evidence, then believe whatever you want, including being as logically inconsistent as you please. The problems only come when you start claiming to speak for God Almighty.
The great harms of religion aren't so much inherent in religion or even in the failed epistemology of religious faith, as in the lack of humility and high levels of ego investment in personal rightness. It's possible to hold religious faith loosely and humbly, to emphasize first principles over dogma. Even that is too crufty for me, but I can see how it can work for some folks.
So I don't regard myself as saving people from themselves. I can't do that anyway, people have to do that sort of thing for themselves, on their own terms, if and when they are ready and it they perceive that it will benefit them enough to justify the discomfort of change.
The religious should not confuse arguing against religious faith in a place where people come to discuss exactly that, with some sort of desire to persecute or crush people of faith. Even Thrill, if I don't miss my guess, doesn't want that. He might think the world would on balance be a much better place without Christianity, but I seriously doubt he hates Christians or would want to legislate against them, etc.
I appreciate that, sincerely. I do get a bit sarcastic at times, and I do confess to giving my boy phet a hard time every now and then, but I do try to be respectful and civil as you all deserve to be treated with dignity.
Of course you concede that death awaits us all. The "good news" to the believer is that death isn't the end, and there's hope for us all. It's really as simple as that. Even if you don't believe in the Christian hell, it's enough that you at least recognize the reality of the grave. The good news gives us a better hope than the nothingness of the grave.
What if we like praying, going on pilgrimages, and being generous with our material abundance? What's the harm to myself or to humanity if I want to do those things? They only lead to a net increase in goodness and joy in the world.
So you want us to be able to lust after our peers without feeling any guilt about it? How is that fair to the one being objectified by said lust? Is that the path to a fuller vision of humanity, or does that make us no better than an animal? There's a better way.
I'll deal with both question and try to do it honestly and straightforward, Mike.
First, the hostility from the Christians in here is palpable. Why such hostility from BF and Thoreau and Mike Way,not so much from you, Mink and Mystic though he can be a little caustic at times? I mean this is a discussion forum. If everyone was posting about how they led their Aunt Mildred to the Lord and what position you pray in things would get really dreary in here, wouldn't they--or is this the kind of riveting stuff that keeps Christians glued to their seats coming back for more?
A little controversy is good for any discussion so again I don't get the hostility especially since I have never knowingly told a lie about Christianity that I am aware of. I said there's no secular historical evidence for Jesus, that's the truth. I said gospel writers jimmied the gospels to read how they wanted it to read, that's the truth. I always gave examples eg. Mark long ending was tacked on 300 years after Mark was written by churchmen to work in a command from Jesus they wanted in there to preach to all nations. That's really deceptive stuff from Christianity but it's the truth as well, albeit a drop in a lake of bad stuff the Christian leaders to promote their faith. To quote Jesus, "If I tell the truth why do you not believe me?" John 8:46.
But the Christians in here act like the Pharisees Jesus was talking to:
BF and Thoreau: "Are we not right in saying you are a heretic and have a devil?" John 8:48
Okay, enough levity. To you questions.
The human condition believer or unbeliever is death and right now there's no evidence there's any afterlife waiting for us. I wish to God there WAS evidence, but I am a realist, not someone who operates their life on faith in something for which there is no evidence. When scientists get some evidence there IS an afterlife you'll see me on the frontline in here cheering them on.
Why do I perceive a Christian life as a wasted life. In a nutshell, I perceive that anyone who is running after a god for which there isn't the slightest bit of secular historical evidence he lived, and a ton of evidence he was manufactured I consider that a wasted life. Why is this person spending his life praying and going on pilgrimages and giving away his worldly possessions and slapping himself and feeling guilty when he feels a little lust in his heart when Olivia Dunne wiggles her cute little fanny? Live a little, man! Don't let all these minute little details ruin your life when this life is all you get according to the science. I mean do people actually try to run their entire lives by every single command Jesus gave? And even worse, when it is likely Jesus of the gospels never gave it, it was written in there by anonymous authors with an agenda?????
All I want is for lurkers who are searching around in here for some religion to join to get the entire picture of what Christianity is all about--the little bit of good, the plentiful bad and the Mt Everest of ugly about it before they join. I don't want them three years from now telling their stories about how they made the biggest mistake of their lives becoming Christian like you read on hundreds of ex-Christian websites. You can damn well bet these people would never have gotten the bad and the ugly from people like BF and Thoreau, who try to cover it up every chance they get, which is why they probably hate me so much--ironically EXACTLY like the Pharisees hated Jesus. If after the lurkers hear both sides they still want to join Christianity, hell, I'll buy their first Bible for them.
I haven't posted on this thread so leave me out of your little hate fest!
Yeah the Jewish connection is a bit of a red herring.
I’ve watched Ray interview one Jew, who was really only a cultural Jew - and not right into the religion as such.
Similar to some of the cultural Catholics he’s interviewed, who often have no idea how to respond to him.
I’ve never seen him debate someone who actually knew their stuff.
I’d never thought of that, but you’re probably right !
Ray Comfort videos all follow a very set agenda and script.
All the comments below his YouTube videos are heavily edited too, and not just the normal “Shadow-banning” that most social media sites do these days anyway.
Truly Christianity is a virus spreading its contagion throughout the world with the sole intention of infecting every last "living creature" on earth.
Way to break it down. Comparing Christianity to a virus seems appropriate. It certainly infected my entire family and nothing has changed about that. Christians actually think they have been charged with the duty of personally saving as many lost souls as possible. Nevermind what that "lost soul" believes because it's wrong and they have to be set right with Jesus or they are going to hell.
Proselytizing is one of the most irritating and annoying things one can do. My Dad used to pick up hitchhikers just to preach at them. It is all so clear to you and I how unbelievably infectious this Christianity disease is having been a part of it for so long.
I was talking with someone today who is considered to be a polymath yet lacking in common sense. Both sides of that are annoying but the knowledge that comes with intelligence seems so insignificant when the person still believes in a god. I mean, how could one be so smart yet believe in fairy tales? But it is ingrained in the brain from birth so perfectly reasonable and logical people are falling for or have been a victim of Christian indoctrination their whole lives.
And then I think......how could someone like me get it and they don't? I guess that's where the common sense comes in. It doesn't take a whole lot to see it for what the bible and Christianity are....a hoax. Probably the best ever. I get it. We need hope, and it and other religions offer hope. Can't we all just have hope without the religious aspect?
It's really sad that you and I and others are either considered angry or disgruntled ex-Christians because of some incident where 'god' didn't come through or we are somehow evil and trying to destroy all that is good. That's actually kind of humorous. That someone would think the little minority of atheists would care enough to even bother with them. Now if they, meaning Christians, would do the same in return.......
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John 8:48
What a waste of a good life. So many Christians are like this--nothing to live for so all they have is their ambition to die so they will be with Jesus. I find very few things in this life that are sadder than that.
