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Old 05-08-2023, 06:11 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EDnurse View Post
Catholicism is THE first Christian denomination in the history of the world. Without the Catholic Church you wouldn’t have a Bible.
without Judaism, Crstnty wouldn't have a bible.

also, without Judaism, Crstnty wouldn't have the Jew Jesus, either.

Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 05-08-2023 at 06:23 PM..
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Old 05-08-2023, 07:22 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel View Post
without Judaism, Crstnty wouldn't have a bible.

also, without Judaism, Crstnty wouldn't have the Jew Jesus, either.
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Old 05-15-2023, 10:37 PM
 
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If you read the bible it says when Jesus rose so did all the Saints in their graves.They were seen leaving their graves and tomes according to the bible Jesus even went to hell for lost souls.When Jesus rose he put an end to death and all the souls of the dead rose with him.
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Old 10-17-2023, 01:43 PM
 
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this question has always been very interesting with so, so many different types of opinions

Can we take a closer look to what the scriptures say ?

we can also see that in - Mat 12:40 - when the Lord Jesus had died his spirit went downward deep into the earth

:40 ...... the Son of man was three days and three nights - IN THE HEART OF THE EARTH


also the New Testament tell of the "" ABYSS "" / the deep - - Greek - Aabussos / ἄβυσσος - translated as the bottomless pit. also - In the translations - the { Aabussos / Abyss } translated as the bottomless pit and as - THE DEEP - this is a description realm or place where beasts / there will be beasts who will be loosened or released from the Abyss - THE DEEP - brought up to bring plagues and death and torment upon the earth


wee how that in Luk 8:30 + Mat 8:28 there were two men possessed with devils, :29 And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God?

the evil spirits asked - ARE YOU COME HERE TO TORMENT US BEFORE THE TIME ?

Luk 8: :31 And they besought him that he would not command them to go out into the DEEP. Abyss / bottomless pit
- Abussos - ἄβυσσος - Abyss

these evils spirits know that there is coming a great day when they will be cast and bound in the DEEP. Abyss / bottomless pit. also, the entire book of Revelation is a prophecy of what is to come in the future

Rev 9:1 Describes - the key of the - Abyss / bottomless pit.
Rev 9:2 And he opened the - Abyss / bottomless pit.
Rev 9:11 the angel controlling - the - Abyss -= loosens beasts and destruction from the DEEP. Abyss / bottomless pit
Rev 11:7 the beast that ascendeth out of the - Abyss / bottomless pit.
Rev 17:8 The beast - - shall ascend out of the - Abyss / bottomless pit.

Rev 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the - Abyss / bottomless pit.
and a great chain in his hand.

Rev 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the- Abyss / bottomless pit - and a great chain in his hand.

:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
0:3 And cast him into the - Abyss / bottomless pit. and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more,

till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

Rev 20:3 And cast Satan into the - Abyss / bottomless pit for a thousand years


so there does seem to be some future reference as revelation here of what you believe to be correct - but I do not believe that this is a past tense where God is binding Evil Angels -

do we see in revelation - Angels being released from the DEEP, Abyss / bottomless pit ?
I do not see this in scriptures..


there are four destructive angels who are said to be bound and confined and limited to the area and region upon the Euphrates River - running through the heart and center of THE ISLAMIC NATIONS - who are released to destroy mankind - but even these four angels are not bound or chained and confined in the - - DEEP. Abyss / bottomless pit

the evil angels are asking Jesus - ARE YOU COME HERE TO TORMENT US BEFORE THE TIME ?

Do we see past tense { Old Testament } evidence of the time or mention of when even Angels are being punished in any way - but is this showing every evidence of a future until a future as the Great Day Of Judgment and the evil angels know this day is coming - ?

are humans being punished before judgment day ?

Rev 12:12 .........the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

it could be also that when a spirit no longer has communication with God or when someone dies, their spirit will sink downward into the earth - as did the spirit of Jesus Christ

The Lord Jesus completely died and for three days he was as dead - he took the Keys of death by his resurrection, conquering death. ?

I do not know how a Spirit could sleep if it does not have brain or mind- i just don't biblically comprehend the nature of questioning """"" asking if the Spirit of Jesus was sleeping as it sank downward into the earth - or was his spirit drinking coffee and wide awake.

does a spirit rest or fall asleep or regain power and energy by going into sleep mode ?
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Old 10-17-2023, 02:07 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
27,857 posts, read 29,668,262 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trusso11783 View Post
I am Catholic. Not super religious but go to church weekly and follow most of it. Quick question. I thought the Bible states that after death, we sleep until Jesus returns and then all of the dead will rise and go to heaven (or hell). Today, I was at a funeral mass. The priest said that the deceased was met by angels and is now in heaven. That is not what I thought the Bible says. Do they say it to comfort the family? Did the priest get it wrong? Is there another contradictory statement that says what the priest said?
Neither, in my opinion. The Bible does say that the dead "know nothing." To my way of thinking, it's referring to the part of us that actually dies, i.e. the physical part, our mortal body. I believe in a life-giving spirit that continues to exist as a fully cognizant entity after we die and resides in a realm the scriptures refer to as Paradise until the time comes when our body will be reunited with our spirit and resurrected, at which point we will stand before God to be judged and welcomed into Heaven.
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Old 10-17-2023, 02:12 PM
 
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but the heart of the earth does not necessarily mean a downward sinking - down in the earth, it probably refers to his body in the tomb

so many unanswered questions, perhaps the Spirit of Jesus simply was silently waiting for three days at the time when he died
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Old 10-17-2023, 02:55 PM
 
Location: The High Desert
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I had a pastor tell me that we may already be in heaven but our bodily existence is destined to experience mortal life. If that is the case, we would cast off our mortal existence upon death. That was a new concept to me coming from an ordained conservative denomination pastor but it has a certain appeal. He was speculating, I think, but quite serious.

It reminds me, in a degree, of a metamorphosis that we might see in nature.
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Old 10-17-2023, 04:00 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SunGrins View Post
I had a pastor tell me that we may already be in heaven but our bodily existence is destined to experience mortal life. If that is the case, we would cast off our mortal existence upon death. That was a new concept to me coming from an ordained conservative denomination pastor but it has a certain appeal. He was speculating, I think, but quite serious.

It reminds me, in a degree, of a metamorphosis that we might see in nature.
He was quite insightful because our conscious awareness that we use to experience this physical existence is NOT physical and does exist at a higher level of existence (Spirit) as does God who IS Spirit
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Old 10-17-2023, 06:28 PM
 
Location: Somewhere in Time
501 posts, read 155,228 times
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Even as a Christian, I always think it's a mistake to allow Bible verses - especially verses that are subject to diverse interpretations or are pulled out of context - to rule the day. The fact is, there is a large body of evidence from multiple areas of research suggesting that consciousness survives bodily death and continues immediately after bodily death. I, like millions of others, have experienced what I regard as convincing After-Death Communications from several relatives, friends and even distant acquaintances - not because I'm special but precisely because ADCs are extremely common across the globe. I believe it's a mistake to read the Bible as though this mountain of evidence didn't exist. Indeed, views as to whether there was any afterlife at all and how it might work were all over the map in biblical times and this is reflected in the Bible.

Ditto for reincarnation. I don't insist on reincarnation as part of my theology, but I am open to it because there is a fairly impressive body of evidence and it would resolve some otherwise problematical Christian doctrines. And the fact is, the favorite anti-reincarnation verse, Hebrews 9:27, really has nothing to do with the topic.

Bibliolatry - worship of the Bible as though it were some sort of cosmic ouija board, with the answer to every conceivable issue Somewhere In There - is one of my pet peeves.
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Old 10-17-2023, 07:29 PM
 
Location: Middle America
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Next to none of the NDEs discuss / involve anyone sleeping, or going to heaven. And those are our best information, because people have been clinically dead (often for a number of minutes), and yet continue to see and experience, which is vividly remembered even years later when they come back.

Most involve out-of-body viewings of themselves dead - though there is no remorse or bad feeling, and then they transport through the universe or though fields in nature. Then they encounter a huge loving presence that is absent of judgement. The same happens to atheists and believers of religion.

The churches and the Bible have this area wrong. You can't rely on them for what likely happens after death.
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