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Old 03-06-2023, 06:22 PM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
32,881 posts, read 26,100,556 times
Reputation: 16011

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Quote:
Originally Posted by RomulusXXV View Post
There's no chance of you befriending me, is there, Michael?

I was going to let your post lie since you say that you've withdrawn from the topic. However, there are just a few things that I thought to address, even if only for the reader. The first thing is that I WOULDN'T THINK to use the term 'soul sleep' because it doesn't make sense. And, I've previously given my reasons why it doesn't make sense. This, once again, is the definition of 'soul' according to Strong's Bible Concordance:


SOUL:
psuché: breath, the soul
Original Word: ψυχή, ῆς, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: psuché
Phonetic Spelling: (psoo-khay')
Definition: breath, the soul
Usage: (a) the vital breath, breath of life, (b) the human soul, (c) the soul as the seat of affections and will, (d) the self, (e) a human person, an individual.


1. THIS ^ according to scripture is what returns to God at death. The body, now devoid of the 'soul' or the 'spirit' or 'the breath' or that 'life-giving element' that causes a human being to function is now in a state of what the Bible refers to as 'sleep mode'. The 'soul' isn't in 'sleep mode' but the body is. The 'soul' has now returned to God. What God does with it is anybody's guess. And so, 'soul sleep' is a term that would not be used by anyone who actually knows their Bible.

2. The 'soul' goes to God. The 'body' is already IN 'hell', otherwise known as 'the grave.

3. Perhaps I did appear to contradict myself. Articulating oneself 100% in topics such as this one can be a bit tricky.

4. The Bible DOES teach that 'the breath' returns to God.


Ecc. 12:7 says, “Our bodies will return to the dust of the earth, and the breath of life will go back to God, who gave it to us.” When God receives His spirit back, our bodies return to the dust of the earth. This is indeed the case, for when life is gone from the body, it decomposes back into the ground.

5. 'Fraid not. As mentioned, using a couple of passages from the Book of Revelation, a book that combines literal, semi-literal, absolutely non-literal, visionary, prophetic, etc. as a means to destroy the MANY other places in the Bible THAT STATE THE CONTRARY is useful only at clutching at straws to support a false doctrine.

6. Peter and Paul knew that there would be an interim period between 'departing their body' and experiencing immortality. There is NOWHERE in these passages of scripture that imply IMMEDIATE heaven. Moreover, we KNOW that 'immediate heaven' would be contradicting what has already been established in many other places in the Bible. And so, we KNOW that Peter and Paul DID NOT promote what you and mainstream Christianity promote. If they were here right now, they would agree with the consistency of scripture and say that the dead 'sleep' until the resurrection and that their 'spirit', 'soul', breath' returns to God until such times as it's reunited with their body.

7. Objective? I'm simply presenting my findings as to what the Bible teaches on the thread topic. I've said this many times previously, "I" have no clue what happens when a person dies. This entire 'the body sleeps' and 'the breath goes back to God' sounds as weird to me as it probably does to many others. HOWEVER, this IS what the Bible says, regardless of what my personal thoughts may or may not be. The OP asked a question. I simply sought the answer to the question from a book that is said by Christians to be 'divine'.
You're trying to keep an argument going. I've said I'm done with this thread. You don't know what you're talking about and apparently are incapable of understanding what the Bible says about the subject. So I'm not wasting any more time on you.
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Old 03-06-2023, 07:14 PM
 
Location: Townsville
6,607 posts, read 2,806,007 times
Reputation: 5433
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Way View Post
You're trying to keep an argument going. I've said I'm done with this thread. You don't know what you're talking about and apparently are incapable of understanding what the Bible says about the subject. So I'm not wasting any more time on you.
I didn't ask you to waste any more time on me. That was and is your choice. I attempt to respond to all posts that address me, Michael, if only because the response just might be of interest to the reader. There were items in your post that required a response.

The animosity that you display toward me is uncalled for, Michael, and this suggests that there is something more going on within you than simply a Bible discussion. And for you to say that I don't know what I'm talking is tantamount to your saying that 'the Bible doesn't know what it's talking about'. The Bible is all that I'm using to make my case on the topic. I couldn't have been clearer on this.

I would prefer that you quit the thread because I really do find the tone of your posts directed at me to be quite disturbing. I obviously upset you previously - though I have no idea where or when that might have been - and you can't let go. I don't need this kind of thing.
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Old 03-06-2023, 07:38 PM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
32,881 posts, read 26,100,556 times
Reputation: 16011
Quote:
Originally Posted by RomulusXXV View Post
I didn't ask you to waste any more time on me. That was and is your choice. I attempt to respond to all posts that address me, Michael, if only because the response just might be of interest to the reader. There were items in your post that required a response.

The animosity that you display toward me is uncalled for, Michael, and this suggests that there is something more going on within you than simply a Bible discussion. And for you to say that I don't know what I'm talking is tantamount to your saying that 'the Bible doesn't know what it's talking about'. The Bible is all that I'm using to make my case on the topic. I couldn't have been clearer on this.

I would prefer that you quit the thread because I really do find the tone of your posts directed at me to be quite disturbing. I obviously upset you previously - though I have no idea where or when that might have been - and you can't let go. I don't need this kind of thing.
Disagreeing with you is not animosity. Having said that, I really don't care what you prefer. But I AM done trying to get you to see your error.
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Old 03-06-2023, 07:46 PM
 
Location: Townsville
6,607 posts, read 2,806,007 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Way View Post
Disagreeing with you is not animosity. Having said that, I really don't care what you prefer. But I AM done trying to get you to see your error.
Okay.
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Old 03-06-2023, 11:22 PM
 
Location: Townsville
6,607 posts, read 2,806,007 times
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Just a thought (Bible text) to take to bed and to mull over. This comes from Jesus:

John 6:54 - Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.

If there were no other passages of scripture that spoke to the topic under discussion the above would answer the OP's question. Not until the 'last day' (Jesus' Second Coming/Resurrection Day) will the dead be raised to eternal life. Meanwhile the 'righteous' dead are 'sleeping' peacefully, awaiting 'the last day' and the reward of 'immortality'. Should not this stir up joy in the hearts of Christians?
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Old 03-08-2023, 07:04 AM
 
Location: UK
6,905 posts, read 6,793,015 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frostnip View Post
Well, it's the eternal question, isn't it?


I'd be very wary of anyone claiming to have THE answer.

I've eventually come around to the notion that we are made of stars, and someday we'll be stars again, and that's the only immortality we can 100% count on. And it is beautiful, if stark.
No, but when many people report the same experience, it is likely there is some truth in those reports.

People from all walks of life and from all belief systems, who have had NDEs and/or who can travel out-of-body, report many similar things, and personally, I do not believe they all read the same literature and all lie about what they subjectively experienced.

If we do not take all of this reported circumstancial evidence into account then we are left with a hard-headed and fixed belief system which does not answer any of our questions.

I think we need to be questioning of what we believe and to arrive at a comfortable set of beliefs which addresses the issues we are curious about.
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Old 03-08-2023, 07:31 PM
 
Location: Townsville
6,607 posts, read 2,806,007 times
Reputation: 5433
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocpaul20 View Post
No, but when many people report the same experience, it is likely there is some truth in those reports.

People from all walks of life and from all belief systems, who have had NDEs and/or who can travel out-of-body, report many similar things, and personally, I do not believe they all read the same literature and all lie about what they subjectively experienced.

If we do not take all of this reported circumstancial evidence into account then we are left with a hard-headed and fixed belief system which does not answer any of our questions.

I think we need to be questioning of what we believe and to arrive at a comfortable set of beliefs which addresses the issues we are curious about.
Near death experiences perhaps make for interesting reading. However, whatever cannot be validated must therefore be regarded with skepticism. Regarding this particular thread topic, Immediately after death ...sleep or heaven?, the Bible is our only source to turn to. Even then, we need to keep our minds open since none of us have had firsthand experience of 'death and beyond' ...none of which can be authenticated anyway.
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Old 03-09-2023, 10:19 PM
 
Location: USA
18,422 posts, read 9,039,452 times
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There is no evidence for any kind of afterlife at all. So the "null hypothesis" is this: after you die, you no longer exist. It will be exactly like the time before you were born. Some people find this upsetting, but it really shouldn't be. All of us were "dead" for ~14 billion years before we were born. I don't remember it being a problem!


An afterlife would be worse than a natural death, I think. Have you ever seen that movie Groundhog Day? The main character essentially gains eternal life...and it drives him nuts. Any kind of eternity would eventually become something like Groundhog Day. Even 72 virgins (Islam) would get boring after a few hundred years.
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Old 03-09-2023, 10:28 PM
 
Location: New England
3,171 posts, read 1,654,508 times
Reputation: 8920
Catholic bible, Christian bible.
Chicken, Meet egg.
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Old 03-10-2023, 05:52 PM
 
Location: USA
18,422 posts, read 9,039,452 times
Reputation: 8461
Come to think of it, sleep *is* a kind of Heaven, unless you are having a bad dream. Who feels happy when the alarm clock goes off at 7 AM, especially in winter when it's still dark outside?
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