Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 03-12-2023, 06:15 PM
 
Location: Townsville
6,790 posts, read 2,899,606 times
Reputation: 5507

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by RomulusXXV
Near death experiences perhaps make for interesting reading. However, whatever cannot be validated must therefore be regarded with skepticism. Regarding this particular thread topic, Immediately after death ...sleep or heaven?, the Bible is our only source to turn to. Even then, we need to keep our minds open since none of us have had firsthand experience of 'death and beyond' ...none of which can be authenticated anyway.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocpaul20 View Post
I am not quite sure what 'cannot be validated' means in this context.

The Bible is not the ONLY source to turn to since there are many other belief systems which also have something important to say about death and the afterlife. Their accounts are just as valid as the Bible accounts.

An open mind does not mean we look ONLY at the Bible. Surely, that is a closed mind, because it is only considering one source? An open mind would consider many sources of information and weight them all with the same critical eye and without bias towards any one of them.

I have given some alternative ideas in my previous post and these have been dismissed as 'interesting reading' when in fact these examples are the only real evidence we have which is agreed apon by many different subjective accounts (across belief systems and cultures), of NDEs and OBEs, as well as kids who remember....
Yes, I know this is the Religion and Spirituality forum, but I assume that I'm responding to predominantly Christian readers and therefore resort to the Bible for answers to the intended thread question that DOES mention 'heaven' and also a controversial Bible belief.

While they may be interesting, I remain skeptical with regard to the NDE stories. But that's just me. The tales of possible reincarnation, however, can be quite intriguing. Back in the day prior to my interest in Christianity I was a big believer in reincarnation based on the accounts of others that had a ring of veracity to them. I'm still somewhat on the fence with regard to reincarnation even though IT doesn't tally with scripture. I acknowledge that there are many things about life and death that we don't know about, and this is why I mentioned in my post the need to keep an open mind.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 03-13-2023, 03:45 PM
 
12 posts, read 3,854 times
Reputation: 34
Smile life after death

In my direct experience (the only source of truth) we simply go to the next (metaphysical) world which is perceived as physical when we are there. Our preexisting spirit body is also felt as physical when we are there. This next world is ordinary; with houses and gardens. Beyond this are more spirit realms. But most of us choose to reincarnate in this physical world to experience and learn more, and pay off negative karma.
Heaven is a myth, or misunderstanding: it is potentially here and now, in our physical body. As demonstrated by Joshua ben Joseph.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-13-2023, 05:42 PM
 
2,767 posts, read 2,665,675 times
Reputation: 255
Quote:
Originally Posted by trusso11783 View Post
I am Catholic. Not super religious but go to church weekly and follow most of it. Quick question. I thought the Bible states that after death, we sleep until Jesus returns and then all of the dead will rise and go to heaven (or hell). Today, I was at a funeral mass. The priest said that the deceased was met by angels and is now in heaven. That is not what I thought the Bible says. Do they say it to comfort the family? Did the priest get it wrong? Is there another contradictory statement that says what the priest said?
The Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessing of Allah be upon him) said,
When a person is placed in his grave and his companions leave him,
and he can no longer hear the sound of their sandals (footsteps),
two angels come to him and make him sit up, and they ask him,

‘What did you say about this man Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him)?’
He says, ‘I bear witness that he is the slave of Allaah and His Messenger.’
It is said, ‘Look at your place in Hell which Allaah has replaced for you with a place in Paradise.’”

The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said, “And he sees them both.

But as for the kaafir or hypocrite, he says,
‘I do not know, I used to say what the people said.’
It is said, ‘You did not know and you did not follow those who knew.’
Then he is struck a blow with an iron hammer between his ears
and he screams a scream which everything around him can hear apart from the two races (of mankind and the jinn).
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-13-2023, 07:36 PM
 
10,020 posts, read 4,956,993 times
Reputation: 754
Quote:
Originally Posted by trusso11783 View Post
................... I thought the Bible states that after death, we sleep until Jesus returns and then all of the dead will rise and go to heaven (or hell). Today, I was at a funeral mass. The priest said that the deceased was met by angels and is now in heaven. That is not what I thought the Bible says. Do they say it to comfort the family? Did the priest get it wrong? Is there another contradictory statement that says what the priest said?
Yes, Jesus and the OT both teach sleep in death - John 11:11-14; Psalms 6:5; 13:3; 115:17; Isaiah 38:18; Ecclesiastes 9:5
Can anyone think of anyone righteous that on the day he died went to hell _____________
On the day righteous Jesus died dead Jesus went to hell - Acts 2:27
Not to some religious-myth teaching of a fiery hell, but biblical hell the temporary stone-cold grave for the sleeping dead.
Please notice when the resurrection takes place according to Jesus at John 6:40, 44.
The ' last day' meaning; Jesus' coming Millennium-Long Day of governing over Earth for a thousand years.
This is why the ' future tense' is used at Acts 24:15 that ' there is going to be' a resurrection.....
Heaven is for people like those described at Luke 22:28-30; Daniel 7:18 classed as saints or holy ones.
They have a first or earlier resurrection according to Revelation 20:6; 5:9-10; 2:10
Whereas, the majority of mankind can have a happy-and-healthy physical resurrection on Resurrection Day (Jesus' thousand-year day - 1st Cor. 15:24-26 )
They can be part of the humble meek people who will inherit the Earth as promised at Matt. 5:5 from Psalm 37:9-11.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-14-2023, 02:00 AM
 
Location: PRC
6,931 posts, read 6,865,664 times
Reputation: 6524
So for those who follow the new testament, here is a very old question which has been asked many time before I am sure.

How can we (all of us) rely on what is reported Jesus said or taught when those who reported his words we writing those reports at least 50 years after his death? I and probably you can not remember what happened a year ago or what our family said then, so how can these books/gospels be a correct and accurate recording of anything Jesus said?

Just like the OT, it probably reflects the opinions of the writers themselves.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-14-2023, 02:48 AM
 
Location: Townsville
6,790 posts, read 2,899,606 times
Reputation: 5507
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocpaul20 View Post
So for those who follow the new testament, here is a very old question which has been asked many time before I am sure.

How can we (all of us) rely on what is reported Jesus said or taught when those who reported his words we writing those reports at least 50 years after his death? I and probably you can not remember what happened a year ago or what our family said then, so how can these books/gospels be a correct and accurate recording of anything Jesus said?

Just like the OT, it probably reflects the opinions of the writers themselves.
THAT is a valid question! I've sometimes - if only tongue-in-cheek - made reference to the 'stenographer' who followed Jesus around recording every word that Jesus allegedly said. Just imagine our history books giving such a slurry of personal quotes from other historical characters from the past: Julius Caesar; Cleopatra; Genghis Khan; Joan of Arc; Christopher Columbus; Leonardo da Vinci; Galileo; Charles Darwin, etc. etc. This never happened. Just Jesus, apparently. At least the quotes from Paul came via his letters.

Right now there is a thread going entitled: "I like your Christ . . .I do not like your Christians", a quote allegedly made by Ghandhi. That's just ONE quote from a lifetime of 'quotes' from this man. And, we're not even certain that Ghandhi ever actually made that ONE quote!

So, yes ...we simply accept without question (until someone like yourself brings it up) that every word allegedly quoted by Jesus actually WAS uttered by Jesus. Of course, the response to this will undoubtedly be ..."God prompted the Bible authors, even many years after the events occurred, to record with ABSOLUTE accuracy every word (of religious importance) that Jesus ever uttered."

Yep, one certainly needs to voluntarily or subconsciously suspend reason when it comes to 'the quotes of Jesus' but that's the way it seems to be.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-14-2023, 06:09 AM
 
2,767 posts, read 2,665,675 times
Reputation: 255
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocpaul20 View Post
So for those who follow the new testament, here is a very old question which has been asked many time before I am sure.

How can we (all of us) rely on what is reported Jesus said or taught when those who reported his words we writing those reports at least 50 years after his death? I and probably you can not remember what happened a year ago or what our family said then, so how can these books/gospels be a correct and accurate recording of anything Jesus said?

Just like the OT, it probably reflects the opinions of the writers themselves.
they should have proofs similar to this but they don't

Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-18-2023, 08:34 PM
 
12 posts, read 3,854 times
Reputation: 34
Default We go to the next world

After death of the physical body we simply go to the next (metaphysical) world, in which we find we still have -or perceive- our body.
In my experience it is much like this world. Religious officers are generally ignorant of this eventuality.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-18-2023, 09:15 PM
 
Location: Townsville
6,790 posts, read 2,899,606 times
Reputation: 5507
Quote:
Originally Posted by david collier View Post
After death of the physical body we simply go to the next (metaphysical) world, in which we find we still have -or perceive- our body.
In my experience it is much like this world. Religious officers are generally ignorant of this eventuality.
So, to be more specific, is this a belief that once a person's 'spirit' returns to God (as per the Bible) it is 'reborn' and continually reborn (at future 'deaths') into what may be a series of multidimensional after-lives?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-19-2023, 12:57 AM
 
Location: NSW
3,797 posts, read 2,993,610 times
Reputation: 1367
Quote:
Originally Posted by david collier View Post
After death of the physical body we simply go to the next (metaphysical) world, in which we find we still have -or perceive- our body.
In my experience it is much like this world. Religious officers are generally ignorant of this eventuality.
What is your experience ?
Did you have an NDE or vision, or something similar?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:04 PM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top