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I doubt it takes a big stretch of the imagination to envision that intelligence in the universe isn't just limited to what we know. As I said, what we don't know about existence is spectacularly large.
Thank you for the new word, envision. But again you are talking about what we do not know, making guesses without an ability to explain how that would even function.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fusion2
That said, you will fill in the gaps to your level of comfort. I guess we all will to make sense of it. Carry on
It is not about comfort. I would really like the Jesus of my childhood to exist, that would be a comfort, to be able to get to meet my Father and Grandfather again.
But when one follows the evidence, my childhood Jesus scenario would appear to be unlikely.
Who are you mad at? Personally, I think the Watchtower needs to come down. Mostly for the benefit of the people trapped inside. The rest of humanity will keep moving forward toward compassion as they get further and further behind until they die and fall off the vine.
Here's the truth about the matter:
Since the beginning of time there have been about 10,000 gods, maybe more. Out of these 10,000 gods the Christians claim theirs is the one true god.
What are the odds of that? How did the Christians, out of all those 10,000 gods, get the one true god? They'll tell you Jesus is the proof--he became a man and revealed himself to the world through his resurrection. But there is zero proof the Jesus of the New Testament even lived, much less resurrected. No written secular historical testimonies or biographies of him, no mentions in other historical writings, no artifacts, no reliefs, no paintings, no body, no tomb, no nothing.
Science shows that when Christians worship this god they release the same "feel good" reward neurochemicals as are released when people have good sex, good drugs, good gambling results and listening to good rock and roll. How likely is it that God chooses to release the exact same brain chemicals as sex and drugs?
How much more likely is it that the Christian god is just another pagan god that evolved along with the other 99,999 other gods?
What are the odds that the Christian god is the real God and he just conveniently allows the other 99,999 to co-exist with him???????
Christians are in such denial to these obvious facts that they cannot see the forest for the trees--99,999 trees to be exact.
Since the beginning of time there have been about 10,000 gods, maybe more. Out of these 10,000 gods the Christians claim theirs is the one true god.
What are the odds of that? How did the Christians, out of all those 10,000 gods, get the one true god? They'll tell you Jesus is the proof--he became a man and revealed himself to the world through his resurrection. But there is zero proof the Jesus of the New Testament even lived, much less resurrected. No written secular historical testimonies or biographies of him, no mentions in other historical writings, no artifacts, no reliefs, no paintings, no body, no tomb, no nothing.
Science shows that when Christians worship this god they release the same "feel good" reward neurochemicals as are released when people have good sex, good drugs, good gambling results and listening to good rock and roll. How likely is it that God chooses to release the exact same brain chemicals as sex and drugs?
How much more likely is it that the Christian god is just another pagan god that evolved along with the other 99,999 other gods?
What are the odds that the Christian god is the real God and he just conveniently allows the other 99,999 to co-exist with him???????
Christians are in such denial to these obvious facts that they cannot see the forest for the trees--99,999 trees to be exact.
You have the truth, why cant you be at peace with that? Why be so angry?
My opinion: people think I hate God but I don't, because it's not practical to hate something that's not real.
What I really hate is the fact that otherwise extremely intelligent people actually fall for all this religious drivel. It baffles the sense that intelligent people can be that dopey.
Since the beginning of time there have been about 10,000 gods, maybe more. Out of these 10,000 gods the Christians claim theirs is the one true god.
What are the odds of that? How did the Christians, out of all those 10,000 gods, get the one true god? They'll tell you Jesus is the proof--he became a man and revealed himself to the world through his resurrection. But there is zero proof the Jesus of the New Testament even lived, much less resurrected. No written secular historical testimonies or biographies of him, no mentions in other historical writings, no artifacts, no reliefs, no paintings, no body, no tomb, no nothing.
Science shows that when Christians worship this god they release the same "feel good" reward neurochemicals as are released when people have good sex, good drugs, good gambling results and listening to good rock and roll. How likely is it that God chooses to release the exact same brain chemicals as sex and drugs?
How much more likely is it that the Christian god is just another pagan god that evolved along with the other 99,999 other gods?
What are the odds that the Christian god is the real God and he just conveniently allows the other 99,999 to co-exist with him???????
Christians are in such denial to these obvious facts that they cannot see the forest for the trees--99,999 trees to be exact.
From a practical standpoint that fell good release is beneficial. I don't think we have to worry because a whole bunch of people are sitting around feeling good about themselves and their place in the world. The dark side of it tho, Ouch!
The drunks call it terminal uniqueness and it might just be one of the biggest reasons we deny stuff about ourselves or our situations. We all have uniqueness but mine isn't terminal so I made it out. Christianity lends itself well to trapping people that way, I agree. It's the same mechanism be it someone who prides their own God concept as the one true God concept above all others and acts accordingly or the drunk that thinks his 12-pack a night isn't a big deal.
How do we fight that? I think, since we can't violate anyone's autonomy, it will HAVE to be thru empowerment of the person with the terminal uniqness.
You're absolutely right, to my "eternal" shame. I lost the better part of my life to primitive archaic beliefs that have no place in our world today, which means that those years I could have been enjoying life in ways Christians aren't permitted to are gone forever for me. I woke up too late because I was a victim of the infamous Ignatius Loyola, founder of the Jesuit order: “Give me a child until he is 7, and I will give you the man.” Loyola was the most brilliant child psychologist of his time. He knew that a child programmed from infancy and drowned in Catholic beliefs like I was would be trapped in them for life. I am one of the rare exceptions. Mordant is another. We found a way out through sheer determination and the product of our rationality, but it's not too late for thousands of lurkers in their20-30's who come in here and read my and other's testimonies of woe to avoid the trap we fell into and escape the pernicious teachings of Christianity/Catholicism that would tie a stone around their necks and effectively plunge them into the deepest part of the ocean. That's all I'm trying to do--give them both sides of the story and explain to them exactly why they should avoid Christianity at all costs if they value their lives. After they have heard the reasons to oppose Christianity, then they can make the decision to tie that stone around their necks and jump into the ocean or run as fast and as far away from Christianity as their little feet can carry them. It's their decision at that point.
You're absolutely right, to my "eternal" shame. I lost the better part of my life to primitive archaic beliefs that have no place in our world today, which means that those years I could have been enjoying life in ways Christians aren't permitted to are gone forever for me. I woke up too late because I was a victim of the infamous Ignatius Loyola, founder of the Jesuit order: “Give me a child until he is 7, and I will give you the man.” Loyola was the most brilliant child psychologist of his time. He knew that a child programmed from infancy and drowned in Catholic beliefs like I was would be trapped in them for life. I am one of the rare exceptions. Mordant is another. We found a way out through sheer determination and the product of our rationality, but it's not too late for thousands of lurkers in their20-30's who come in here and read my and other's testimonies of woe to avoid the trap we fell into and escape the pernicious teachings of Christianity/Catholicism that would tie a stone around their necks and effectively plunge them into the deepest part of the ocean. That's all I'm trying to do--give them both sides of the story and explain to them exactly why they should avoid Christianity at all costs if they value their lives. After they have heard the reasons to oppose Christianity, then they can make the decision to tie that stone around their necks and jump into the ocean or run as fast and as far away from Christianity as their little feet can carry them. It's their decision at that point.
It's never too late. The internet is facilitating huge awakenings and speeding up healing if you check out all the ex-cult recovery groups. It's the apocalypse (unhiding) for abusive systems and people. Look at all this child abuse that has gone on for centuries and is coming to light and starting to be dealt with. The past is the past and it doesn't matter if he sucked or was glorious from an experiential POV if you try mindfulness. The only way the past can hurt you is if it throws out some of those dark times into the present. It's supposed to do that to warn you but a lot of us grab on and get sucked into the emotion of it. I have been in recovery groups from alcohol abuse and the cult. People feeling like they wasted their time is a common theme. I have always had this "bonus round" mindset tho, especially the older I get and fewer and fewer people get to live as long as I do. We don't know how many minutes each life will bring, but as long as it's still on it's still on.
It's never too late. The internet is facilitating huge awakenings and speeding up healing if you check out all the ex-cult recovery groups. It's the apocalypse (unhiding) for abusive systems and people. Look at all this child abuse that has gone on for centuries and is coming to light and starting to be dealt with. The past is the past and it doesn't matter if he sucked or was glorious from an experiential POV if you try mindfulness. The only way the past can hurt you is if it throws out some of those dark times into the present. It's supposed to do that to warn you but a lot of us grab on and get sucked into the emotion of it. I have been in recovery groups from alcohol abuse and the cult. People feeling like they wasted their time is a common theme. I have always had this "bonus round" mindset tho, especially the older I get and fewer and fewer people get to live as long as I do. We don't know how many minutes each life will bring, but as long as it's still on it's still on.
It's sounds nice, Apost8, but I am 72 and one leg in the grave. It's a bit too late for me to have those rolls in the hay I wish I could have had when I was a strapping young 20 YO but such is life. No use crying over spilled milk.
Christianity says, "No sex until after marriage". Unfortunately it's after marriage that women find out their husbands are latent gays who saddle them with a few children and then decide to leave them for another man. Or men who find out only after marriage that their wives are infertile or frigid or promiscuous or a dozen other problems that would have come to light if only they had slept together before marriage. But raise the issue of divorce with a Christian marriage counselor about their abusive husband who knocks them through the wall when she asks him not to drink and the typical response from a Christian fundamentalist marriage counselor will be, "Give him time. Love him. Forgive him. You can bring him to Jesus with prayer and sacrifice and your good example of enduring through trials and tribulations as Jesus commanded you to." Just typing this makes me sick to my stomach, but this is the lunacy Christian women get from these crackpot fundamentalist counselors who have no right to be counseling a woman how to strap on a sanitary pad, much less how they should be dealing with their alcoholic, violent shiftless husbands who are Christian in name only.
Religion, particularly the Abrahamic ones, is the only entity that allows otherwise perfectly sane people to commit unspeakable acts of violence in the name of their god, according to Sam Harris, noted atheist.
Watch him absolutely demolish Christianity in 11 minutes with truth and rational thinking:
Harris: "If you say a few Latin words over your breakfast pancake and believe it will turn that pancake into Elvis you're a lunatic. But if you say those same Latin words over a cracker and believe it will turn that cracker into the body of Jesus you're a Catholic." The Catholic church has even developed a pretty word to explain away this lunacy: "transsubstantiation". How's that for Orwellian 1984 doublespeak?
It's sounds nice, Apost8, but I am 72 and one leg in the grave. It's a bit too late for me to have those rolls in the hay I wish I could have had when I was a strapping young 20 YO but such is life. No use crying over spilled milk.
Christianity says, "No sex until after marriage". Unfortunately it's after marriage that women find out their husbands are latent gays who saddle them with a few children and then decide to leave them for another man. Or men who find out only after marriage that their wives are infertile or frigid or promiscuous or a dozen other problems that would have come to light if only they had slept together before marriage. But raise the issue of divorce with a Christian marriage counselor about their abusive husband who knocks them through the wall when she asks him not to drink and the typical response from a Christian fundamentalist marriage counselor will be, "Give him time. Love him. Forgive him. You can bring him to Jesus with prayer and sacrifice and your good example of enduring through trials and tribulations as Jesus commanded you to." Just typing this makes me sick to my stomach, but this is the lunacy Christian women get from these crackpot fundamentalist counselors who have no right to be counseling a woman how to strap on a sanitary pad, much less how they should be dealing with their alcoholic, violent shiftless husbands who are Christian in name only.
Religion, particularly the Abrahamic ones, is the only entity that allows otherwise perfectly sane people to commit unspeakable acts of violence in the name of their god, according to Sam Harris, noted atheist.
Watch him absolutely demolish Christianity in 11 minutes with truth and rational thinking:
Harris: "If you say a few Latin words over your breakfast pancake and believe it will turn that pancake into Elvis you're a lunatic. But if you say those same Latin words over a cracker and believe it will turn that cracker into the body of Jesus you're a Catholic." The Catholic church has even developed a pretty word to explain away this lunacy: "transsubstantiation". How's that for Orwellian 1984 doublespeak?
I love Sam Harris. How long since you figured out you had been snookered?
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