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Old 04-10-2023, 11:52 PM
 
Location: Germany
16,798 posts, read 4,996,217 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thoreau424 View Post
The Old Testament is of Jewish writings, strictly for Jews.

The New Testament is post-Judaism, for all 'gentiles' / all non-Jews.

It makes no sense to try to use both together. Two very different approaches and 'covenants'
But why would a god need a new covenant?
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Old 04-10-2023, 11:59 PM
 
Location: Germany
16,798 posts, read 4,996,217 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by compwiz02 View Post
This is just a random thought and not a response to anything in this thread. Obviously, there's a lot of Christians out there that love to assert their knowledge on religion but do not have strong academic backgrounds. I do know that out of the large population of Christians, there is the small group of Christians that do have strong academic backgrounds. They have masters degrees and possibly doctorate degrees and very strong expertise in both ancient biblical scripture and ancient history.

I'd love to see thrillo as well as a few other people in this thread sit in a room with these Christian historians and have a nice discussion on the Old Testament. No joke....I love seeing Christians with strong academic backgrounds who actually research this stuff on a daily basis talk about it and to do it with atheists would be more interesting.
One problem is these Christian historians have invented there own methods that are used nowhere else in the field of history.

Another is that they believe what the early Christian fathers said without questioning why they said something.

But the biggest problem is they need to ignore evidence secular historians have provided, sometimes they deliberately ignore this evidence.
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Old 04-11-2023, 12:30 AM
 
63,843 posts, read 40,128,566 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Diogenes View Post
But why would a god need a new covenant?
The initial covenant was with our savage ancestors and has been characterized as the schoolmaster stage of our spiritual development under Mosaic Law. It was applicable to our species' "childhood." It is wise to have different "rules" for teenagers, IMO. After the schoolmaster stage, we entered the "adolescence" of our species' spiritual development and the ability to conceive eternal life (spiritual puberty?). Jesus is our entrance key because His perfect Holy Spirit is part of our collective human consciousness (Spirit). He establishes our place (Spiritual kingdom?) within the consciousness of God.
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Old 04-11-2023, 04:59 AM
 
Location: Germany
16,798 posts, read 4,996,217 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
The initial covenant was with our savage ancestors and has been characterized as the schoolmaster stage of our spiritual development under Mosaic Law. It was applicable to our species' "childhood." It is wise to have different "rules" for teenagers, IMO. After the schoolmaster stage, we entered the "adolescence" of our species' spiritual development and the ability to conceive eternal life (spiritual puberty?). Jesus is our entrance key because His perfect Holy Spirit is part of our collective human consciousness (Spirit). He establishes our place (Spiritual kingdom?) within the consciousness of God.
A covenant is a set of rules people should follow to get their promised reward. One would have thought a god would have set the rules correctly to begin with, 1) believe in Jesus, 2) one CAN eat bacon, and 3) men do NOT need the snip.
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Old 04-11-2023, 07:47 AM
 
22,234 posts, read 19,245,773 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
The initial covenant was with our savage ancestors and has been characterized as the schoolmaster stage of our spiritual development under Mosaic Law. It was applicable to our species' "childhood." It is wise to have different "rules" for teenagers, IMO. After the schoolmaster stage, we entered the "adolescence" of our species' spiritual development and the ability to conceive eternal life (spiritual puberty?). Jesus is our entrance key because His perfect Holy Spirit is part of our collective human consciousness (Spirit). He establishes our place (Spiritual kingdom?) within the consciousness of God.
the next step in the "progression" presented above then is that Islam is a further refinement and maturity. that is what the scenario in post above presents and advocates. post above equates a religion and religious figure with stages of "childhood" , then "teenagers and puberty" and so then that places Islam and Mohammed squarely at the peak, pinnacle and apex of "adulthood" with regards to spiritual development.

just another example of replacement theology. and it's a package deal: if Crstnty doctrine is "better" "new" "improved" then it follows that Islam doctrine is even "more better" "more new" "more improved". can't have one without the other.

brings to mind that bible quote about digging a pit to snare another and then falling into it yourself.

Proverbs 26:27
"He who digs a pit for others will fall into it; he who tries to roll a boulder down on others will be crushed by it."

Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 04-11-2023 at 08:13 AM..
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Old 04-11-2023, 07:55 AM
 
18,250 posts, read 16,935,370 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Diogenes View Post
But why would a god need a new covenant?

The Jews needed a new covenant so they wrote into the Pentateuch God giving them a new covenant.
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Old 04-11-2023, 08:04 AM
 
1,481 posts, read 481,260 times
Reputation: 513
Quote:
Originally Posted by compwiz02 View Post
This is just a random thought and not a response to anything in this thread. Obviously, there's a lot of Christians out there that love to assert their knowledge on religion but do not have strong academic backgrounds. I do know that out of the large population of Christians, there is the small group of Christians that do have strong academic backgrounds. They have masters degrees and possibly doctorate degrees and very strong expertise in both ancient biblical scripture and ancient history.

I'd love to see thrillo as well as a few other people in this thread sit in a room with these Christian historians and have a nice discussion on the Old Testament. No joke....I love seeing Christians with strong academic backgrounds who actually research this stuff on a daily basis talk about it and to do it with atheists would be more interesting.
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
I'll respond to this:


Your average atheist could talk circles around your average Christian when it comes to the Bible. A large percentage of atheists got that way by reading the Bible and studying it. Your average Christian cracks a Bible about twice a year. How many Christians in here outside of yourself, compwiz have even bothered to attack my assertions in this thread with some hard evidence that I am wrong? None. I ask a question about Micah 5:5-6 about Jesus and the Assyrians, what did I get in response? Nothing. Why? because I'm right and they're wrong and they know it. It sounds presumptuous, it sounds pompous, it's sounds conceited, but all it is is the truth. You've heard me say, "Atheists don't have to lie, all they have to do is tell the truth." I've challenged a dozen Christians in here to point out to me where I have ever told a lie about Christianity. None have ever done so even though I know they'd love to. Why? Because they cannot find one.



Am I wrong?
There is a big difference in academic studies and inherently knowing. The Pharisee's were steeped in academic studies, while Jesus Christ displayed inherently knowing as a child at the Temple, and at that time they were amazed, which later turned to being indignant with him, because their own perceived image was what they were building upon, as they could not recognize Jesus Christ.

In your post, thrillobyte, it appears you are making everything all about you and in the same spirit as Herod. The three wise men followed the light and found the child and shared things of value, and to Herod they were warned to go back a different way, and not share with him the value they had found, as he was being dishonest in the intentions he had spoken to them. Because for Herod, it was all about him and his own image that he served.

I could write the same things about the Satan/serpents beguiling in the Garden of Eden, as he sought to claim himself as light, over and against God's word.

Last edited by chief scum; 04-11-2023 at 08:22 AM..
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Old 04-11-2023, 08:43 AM
 
18,250 posts, read 16,935,370 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chief scum View Post
There is a big difference in academic studies and inherently knowing. The Pharisee's were steeped in academic studies, while Jesus Christ displayed inherently knowing as a child at the Temple, and at that time they were amazed, which later turned to being indignant with him, because their own perceived image was what they were building upon, as they could not recognize Jesus Christ.

In your post, thrillobyte, it appears you are making everything all about you and in the same spirit as Herod. The three wise men followed the light and found the child and shared things of value, and to Herod they were warned to go back a different way, and not share with him the value they had found, as he was being dishonest in the intentions he had spoken to them. Because for Herod, it was all about him and his own image that he served.

I could write the same things about the Satan/serpents beguiling in the Garden of Eden, as he sought to claim himself as light, over and against God's word.

None of this is a defense to what I claimed about apologists deliberately lying to portray Jesus as having been predicted in the Old Testament. No scholar outside Christianity recognizes this ridiculous assertion. Why don't you answer the question, Chief and don't give me this nonsense about me answering your question first.


Is the "he" in Micah 5:5-6 Jesus? Yes or no?
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Old 04-11-2023, 09:39 AM
 
63,843 posts, read 40,128,566 times
Reputation: 7881
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Diogenes View Post
A covenant is a set of rules people should follow to get their promised reward. One would have thought a god would have set the rules correctly to begin with, 1) believe in Jesus, 2) one CAN eat bacon, and 3) men do NOT need the snip.
We have NO DIRECT knowledge of what God requires of us, period! Any and all interpretations of any inspirations from God are the product of human ignorance and fallibility.
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Old 04-11-2023, 09:56 AM
 
63,843 posts, read 40,128,566 times
Reputation: 7881
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel View Post
the next step in the "progression" presented above then is that Islam is a further refinement and maturity. that is what the scenario in post above presents and advocates. post above equates a religion and religious figure with stages of "childhood" , then "teenagers and puberty" and so then that places Islam and Mohammed squarely at the peak, pinnacle and apex of "adulthood" with regards to spiritual development.

just another example of replacement theology. and it's a package deal: if Crstnty doctrine is "better" "new" "improved" then it follows that Islam doctrine is even "more better" "more new" "more improved". can't have one without the other.

brings to mind that bible quote about digging a pit to snare another and then falling into it yourself.

Proverbs 26:27
"He who digs a pit for others will fall into it; he who tries to roll a boulder down on others will be crushed by it."
Your analysis ASSUMES a chronological worldly sequence about a spiritual advance. Islam is in many ways still in the schoolmaster stage by rejecting Jesus's Gospel of agape love. Islam is a "sibling rivalry" religion created to place the descendants of Ishmael against those of Isaac, IMO.

The level of barbarity and worldly concern is what characterizes the spiritual level of theology, not its chronology, although there is obviously a chronological component to its evolution. What puzzles me is how it has stagnated for over two millennia! It does not speak well of human spirituality, again IMO.
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