Jesus' Blood Sacrifice Just A Reworking of Ancient Human Blood Sacrifices (Muslim, God)
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Jesus sacrifice was a complete waste of a good life, totally unnecessary for the forgiveness of sin, at least Jewish sins as 2 Chronicles 7:14 makes clear:
"If My people, upon whom My name is called, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek My face, and turn from their evil ways; then will I hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin, and I will heal their land"
And that forgiveness was made possible by Christ's death on the cross. Don't forget that God is not confined to time and space as we are. The power of Christ's death was retroactive - it's effective in all times and places.
Individuals were certainly forgiven in Old Testament times, but they still had to wait for their heavenly reward until Christ descended into hell and freed the captives.
And that forgiveness was made possible by Christ's death on the cross. Don't forget that God is not confined to time and space as we are. The power of Christ's death was retroactive - it's effective in all times and places.
Individuals were certainly forgiven in Old Testament times, but they still had to wait for their heavenly reward until Christ descended into hell and freed the captives.
Mike, quick question:
How BAD would the evidence have to be to convince you the Jesus story was a complete fabrication? Maybe evidence is completely unnecessary for you.
Last edited by thrillobyte; 04-26-2023 at 08:27 PM..
And that forgiveness was made possible by Christ's death on the cross. Don't forget that God is not confined to time and space as we are. The power of Christ's death was retroactive - it's effective in all times and places.
Individuals were certainly forgiven in Old Testament times, but they still had to wait for their heavenly reward until Christ descended into hell and freed the captives.
That's convenient. But who got forgiven and who didn't???
And how did people in other parts of the world who weren't in on this plan and obviously weren't members of "God's chosen people" fare in this system.
That is why this whole thing makes no sense. If God loves all people, why did he have chosen ones. (Yes, we know that Abram was the only guy in the world that picked the correct God...so his family were the lucky winners). But it seems weird that in the whole wide world nobody else figured out which God was Yahweh.
And sending Jesus to be executed was kind of a poor plan if you are some dude in the Amazon rain forest and it's going to take 1500 years before your peeps even have a chance to hear about Jesus. Does that guy get forgiven and have any chance to go to heaven? And does he get to bring his blow gun to heaven? Those things are pretty cool.
That's convenient. But who got forgiven and who didn't???
And how did people in other parts of the world who weren't in on this plan and obviously weren't members of "God's chosen people" fare in this system.
That is why this whole thing makes no sense. If God loves all people, why did he have chosen ones. (Yes, we know that Abram was the only guy in the world that picked the correct God...so his family were the lucky winners). But it seems weird that in the whole wide world nobody else figured out which God was Yahweh.
And sending Jesus to be executed was kind of a poor plan if you are some dude in the Amazon rain forest and it's going to take 1500 years before your peeps even have a chance to hear about Jesus. Does that guy get forgiven and have any chance to go to heaven? And does he get to bring his blow gun to heaven? Those things are pretty cool.
Excellent questions, eddie. And as always such common sense isn't going to matter a hill of beans to a Christian. A Christian's mind cannot be changed. There is no amount of evidence bad enough that it could persuade a Christian to believe Jesus wasn't real.
And that forgiveness was made possible by Christ's death on the cross. Don't forget that God is not confined to time and space as we are. The power of Christ's death was retroactive - it's effective in all times and places.
Individuals were certainly forgiven in Old Testament times, but they still had to wait for their heavenly reward until Christ descended into hell and freed the captives.
Christians often argue out of both sides of their mouth. They often say the evidence for Jesus is overwhelming, yet on the other hand they say the reason there isn't more evidence is because God wants Christians to rely on faith for believing in Jesus and an overwhelming amount of evidence would compromise that faith.
That's convenient. But who got forgiven and who didn't???
Those who ask for it are forgiven. Those who don't ask for it aren't.
Quote:
Originally Posted by eddie gein
And how did people in other parts of the world who weren't in on this plan and obviously weren't members of "God's chosen people" fare in this system.
That is why this whole thing makes no sense. If God loves all people, why did he have chosen ones.
God doesn't leave us orphans. If anyone outside the nation of Israel genuinely searched for God, God would lead them to Himself. There are many examples of Gentiles in the Old Testament coming into the Covenant.
God still works this way today. See this short thread for several examples.
As for God having a "chosen people", it's possible that you're misunderstanding what we mean by that.
As I explained earlier,
Quote:
Originally Posted by EscAlaMike
God's "chosen" people means that they are the people among whom God chose to become Incarnate.
Since Christ's sacrifice has united all of mankind through baptism, God's "chosen" people are no longer confined to one nation or tribe, but consists of all the baptized throughout history and throughout the world.
Quote:
Originally Posted by eddie gein
And sending Jesus to be executed was kind of a poor plan if you are some dude in the Amazon rain forest and it's going to take 1500 years before your peeps even have a chance to hear about Jesus. Does that guy get forgiven and have any chance to go to heaven? And does he get to bring his blow gun to heaven? Those things are pretty cool.
Does the guy in the Amazon want forgiveness and salvation? If he does, then God will not abandon him.
Why doesn't Jesus appear to these Amazonian and African indigents if he wants them saved? He had Mary appear several times, right, so he can do it too.
I know, I know--he has his human emissaries on earth to do that work. Problem is, the number of missionaries that will agree to go to into these hostile places is dropping like a rock. What then? The indigents simply don't get saved and therefore they go to hell, right?
Why doesn't Jesus appear to these Amazonian and African indigents if he wants them saved? He had Mary appear several times, right, so he can do it too.
I know, I know--he has his human emissaries on earth to do that work. Problem is, the number of missionaries that will agree to go to into these hostile places is dropping like a rock. What then? The indigents simply don't get saved and therefore they go to hell, right?
Why do you presume that those "Amazonian and African indigents" have any interest in Jesus, forgiveness, or salvation? If Jesus appeared to you, you wouldn't want to have anything to do with Him. So why would they be any different?
That aside; apparently, He has been appearing to "Muslims".
Quote:
Originally Posted by EscAlaMike
As I said, God will not abandon anyone who sincerely seeks after Him. It goes without saying that a "muslim" who sincerely seeks after God will not remain in his current state.
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