Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
All true. Getting to the place does require listening, study, meditation on what is learnt, clearing any doubts, and finally assimilation of the learning. Knowing the Paramatma requires acquisition of Paratma-knowledge, different from knowledge of the world. i don’t know if there is any difference between knowledge and intellectual knowledge. It is all knowledge except the paramatma-knowledge.
This sums it up from the Advaita perspective - Four-fold Qualification (Saadhana Chatushtaya)
The Chatushtaya, which is actually 6 telescoped into 4, is the minimum requirement for spiritual seekers to condition their mind to understand Advaita.
The Chatushtaya, which is actually 6 telescoped into 4, is the minimum requirement for spiritual seekers to condition their mind to understand Advaita.
IMO, it is the BIASED "woo" and "hokum" that I deliberately rejected as an atheist meditator because it not only made no sense, but it ensured that I would not interpret my experiences without a preconditioned bias. I sought the REAL not the predetermined and imagined. That is why the fact that it IS Oneness was so disconcerting to me.
But my determination to know what is REAL may also explain why my individuality did not get submerged and disappear and I experienced the multitude within the Oneness. It presented the ultimate conundrum for my intellect which prompted my decades-long quest to understand it rationally, NOT with "woo." I have succeeded but you may consider it confirmation bias. That is okay. I consider your views preconditioned Bias.
That is why the fact that it IS Oneness was so disconcerting to me.
That was my relief. What truly disturbed me was an episode of precognition at the end of a fantastic day on a remote mountain pond on my fishing kayak that immediately preceded my experience of lucid waking.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD
But my determination to know what is REAL may also explain why my individuality did not get submerged and disappear and I experienced the multitude within the Oneness.
Lucid waking is kinda like that I guess? Nothing vanished, including body and mind, however the distinction between Consciousness and everything else, including body and mind, was... fantastical. Beyond profound and certainly beyond intellect and language.
The interesting thing is I perceived the Light of That Consciousness shining forth from all things, and not with sense organs, either external or internal. So while I mentioned a distinction above that's only at the surface level. The level of name and form. At the deeper level it was all the Shining Light of Pure Knowing and that's what I knew myself to be and without a shadow of doubt. It was quite literally a lived experience.
That was my relief. What truly disturbed me was an episode of precognition at the end of a fantastic day on a remote mountain pond on my fishing kayak that immediately preceded my experience of lucid waking.
Lucid waking is kinda like that I guess? Nothing vanished, including body and mind, however the distinction between Consciousness and everything else, including body and mind, was... fantastical. Beyond profound and certainly beyond intellect and language.
The interesting thing is I perceived the Light of That Consciousness shining forth from all things, and not with sense organs, either external or internal. So while I mentioned a distinction above that's only at the surface level. The level of name and form. At the deeper level it was all the Shining Light of Pure Knowing and that's what I knew myself to be and without a shadow of doubt. It was quite literally a lived experience.
It cannot be described verbally, that is true, but you have come as close as anyone I have yet encountered. The consciousness is in ALL but not through any sensory system which is why I consider it the substrate for all existence.
It cannot be described verbally, that is true, but you have come as close as anyone I have yet encountered. The consciousness is in ALL but not through any sensory system which is why I consider it the substrate for all existence.
I'll mention one thing about Advaita Vedanta. At the highest level it's a two step process. 1 - Discernment between the real and unreal. 2 - Realizing it's all real. The first is at the relative level of reality and consumes all the seeking until one Realizes there's a more fundamental reality, i.e. Step 2.
Two Steps to the Not-two | Swami Sarvapriyananda @ Science and Non-duality Conference - https://youtu.be/vSuGD0fqotw
IMO, it is the BIASED "woo" and "hokum" that I deliberately rejected as an atheist meditator because it not only made no sense, but it ensured that I would not interpret my experiences without a preconditioned bias. I sought the REAL not the predetermined and imagined. That is why the fact that it IS Oneness was so disconcerting to me.
But my determination to know what is REAL may also explain why my individuality did not get submerged and disappear and I experienced the multitude within the Oneness. It presented the ultimate conundrum for my intellect which prompted my decades-long quest to understand it rationally, NOT with "woo." I have succeeded but you may consider it confirmation bias. That is okay. I consider your views preconditioned Bias.
Did you read the link? I am curious as to what part of the qualifications you consider woo and hokum?
those who refer to a field of expertise as "hokum" and "woo" and "imagined"
are not qualified to participate in the discussion. That behavior effectively excludes them from the conversation, as it demonstrates they lack the basic skills and understanding to contribute or engage in any meaningful manner.
Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 05-13-2023 at 04:09 PM..
those who refer to a field of expertise as "hokum" and "woo" and "imagined"
are not qualified to participate in the discussion. that behavior effectively excludes them from the conversation, as it demonstrates they lack the basic skills and understanding to contribute in any meaningful manner.
I am just surprised because the "qualifications" are mostly behavior and attitude modifications. The first and most important being knowing what is the Self and what it is not. The rest is about emotional balance, nether hating nor getting attached to things and people, forbearance, etc. Nothing that Jesus did not teach. Except Jesus gave them as imperatives to those he was among at the time and location, and these are addressed to seekers who want liberation. Is it woo because of where it originates from? Very interesting reaction.
There is a recognition and teaching found in many different paths that the greatest wisdom is to recognize "I know nothing." One of the sages i like best, is known for before giving a public talk he would spend time sitting in silence for a long time sometimes hours, and those packed in the halls waiting for him to begin speaking, noted he would say often "I know nothing." There is a very profound depth to this.
It is only with the emptying of what we think we know that we can receive inspiration to flow in.
He said many times, “Now I know nothing, nothing—nothing at all!” even claiming, “In truth, I know absolutely nothing at all.” After teaching a profound lesson, he insisted he was totally ignorant. He said, “My teachings are very unique, but my not-knowing is even more unique.”
in Zen it is called "Beginner's Mind, The Art of Not Knowing"
Because the more a person knows about a topic; and the more a person thinks they know, then the more they close their mind to further learning.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
"
