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but divinity is also more than and beyond and outside of space, time, form, and universes.
divinity is more than universes.
I'm just making a claim about objective reality. It appears to be a multitude of waves but in reality it's all Water. Beyond that language is inadequate to the task of describing Water.
bold above, yes. experience it for yourself.
as many have. leaving descriptions, map, guide in various sacred texts and traditions lo these many thousands and tens of thousands of years.
it is not a spectator spot. to validate and verify requires participation.
otherwise it's like trying to learn to cook without ever setting foot in the kitchen or without ever experimenting with various methods, techniques, cuisines, flavors, ingredients, variations.
in short no one can do it for you, and no one can prove it to you.
the only person who can do this is you.
The Water/wave analogy states the same. A wave is nothing but Water, through and through. Water is not a wave. Same for Clay & pot and Gold and ornament.
It seems to me these two analogies unfold two different concepts. Water, wave or foam of the waves is the omnipresence of Existence through all names and forms. We have different names for forms that water gets shaped, but it is all just one thing, water. Oneness.
Clay is Existence, an element that cannot be further reduced. It is Sat, always exists. Pot is is modified clay, created and shaped for different purposes. Once broken it is no longer pot. Clay remains always. Our bodies are all different and individual. We all have Divinity within. Our bodies die, but Divinity remains. Divinity is Truth, Sat, Existence. It cannot be modified. We are Divinity that resides in our body as Atma, Self. We are not the Body or Mind, all that dies and become soil.
no.
in response to the question which was asked in the opening post "is there a way to determine the truth"
i replied that the validation and verification of divinity is through your own experience.
so no, divinity is not an experience.
the validation and verification of divinity is through your own experience.
It seems to me these two analogies unfold two different concepts. Water, wave or foam of the waves is the omnipresence of Existence through all names and forms. We have different names for forms that water gets shaped, but it is all just one thing, water. Oneness.
Clay is Existence, an element that cannot be further reduced. It is Sat, always exists. Pot is is modified clay, created and shaped for different purposes. Once broken it is no longer pot. Clay remains always. Our bodies are all different and individual. We all have Divinity within. Our bodies die, but Divinity remains. Divinity is Truth, Sat, Existence. It cannot be modified. We are Divinity that resides in our body as Atma, Self. We are not the Body or Mind, all that dies and become soil.
I suppose it's like "What Is It Like to Be a Bat?" as in the paper by Thomas Nagel. In other words the only way to know is through direct subjective experience.
It also depends on how one might perceive a direct experience with God. For instance a non-dualist might describe such an experience as the waking equivalent of a lucid dream.
I like your wave/water analogy and I have used it in my Synthesis. Tzaph keeps intimating that this Reality is really just a dream, so your lucid dreaming analogy is cogent. I see the water as the consciousness of God. It is the substrate for everything that manifests including our ability to imagine and create. Our ability to direct the content of a lucid dream is probative. That makes it far more complex than can be subsumed under the water wave analogy but no less apt.
That works
But actually even water is Maya.
Metaphors have their limitation.
Both sides of the as are internally consistent and have the same relationship.
A wave is to Water as Maya is to Brahman. A wave (or foam, drop, rain, etc) is an appearance (name & form) of Water as Maya is an appearance of Brahman.
Of course if we compare Water to Brahman, well Water meet wave. LOL!
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