Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
For the sake of argument, let’s say it is. Then, does it prove that God exists?
If yes, then the concept of Atheism goes out of the window.
If no, then Atheists should also state that they lack in the belief of emotions like Anger, happiness, hope - because there is no evidence.
Which means Atheists are not only godless but also anger-less, happy-less and hopeless. Are they?
But an Atheist starting this thread is even more funny.
It’s like a bald person worrying about his hairstyle.
Interesting take, but I'm not sure your if/then analysis is all that well put together...
No. For the sake of argument, there is no argument here that proves a god exists. As such, the "concept" of atheism doesn't change any. If/when there is any real proof a god exists, then we'll all become believers and the "concept" of atheism will no longer be justified.
Accordingly, I'm also not too clear about the "beliefs of emotions." We all know emotions exist either way. Don't we? Atheists have the same emotions that religious people have. Including; anger, happiness, hope, etc.
I don't see why it's funny that a bald person start a thread about hair style either, but I notice you insert the notion about "worrying." Is it to worry about these topics just because someone starts a thread about a topic of interest to them?
Funny how your perspective comes out with this comment of yours, but what's even more funny than who or why this thread was started is the silly attempts at logic and reason posted in this thread since it was started.
What a poor analogy. As a naturally bald person, it doesn't mean I am 100% bald. I can choose how the sides and back look, how long the hair is, how it's combed, whether or not it needs to be trimmed. And if I were a man who shaves my head, that's also a choice.
For the sake of argument, let’s say it is. Then, does it prove that God exists?
If yes, then the concept of Atheism goes out of the window.
If no, then Atheists should also state that they lack in the belief of emotions like Anger, happiness, hope - because there is no evidence.
Which means Atheists are not only godless but also anger-less, happy-less and hopeless. Are they?
But an Atheist starting this thread is even more funny.
It’s like a completely bald person worrying about his hairstyle.
I was proposing that “god” might be a real emotion, instead of a literal person.
You guys make all kinds of assumptions, declare you're right, everyone else is wrong, etc....but in the end you can't justify WHY that's the case, nor do you even attempt to do so.
People arguing against the claim that some specific god legitimizes his arbitrary moral code -- essentially via might makes right -- are not therefore arguing that some other moral code is perfect.
BF: [I claim that] God has decided what is right and wrong <= god being subjective
Others: [I point out that] Humans have decided what is right and wrong <= people being subjective
A moral code has to serve the interests of those who subscribe to it. Humans care about each other (empathy) and about a working civil society. God cares about things like what fabrics go with each other, when to eat shellfish, and has a prurient interest in people's private sexual proclivities. You decide which is "better".
I'm not saying who is right or wrong, I'm just suggesting that I choose to live under moral codes grounded in everyday reality and experience and informed by current needs and current understanding of reality, not an understanding from 80+ generations ago where it is claimed that its immutability is a feature rather than a bug.
Neither code is some sort of scientific formula. That's not the point.
Interesting take, but I'm not sure your if/then analysis is all that well put together...
No. For the sake of argument, there is no argument here that proves a god exists. As such, the "concept" of atheism doesn't change any. If/when there is any real proof a god exists, then we'll all become believers and the "concept" of atheism will no longer be justified.
Accordingly, I'm also not too clear about the "beliefs of emotions. We all know emotions exist either way. Don't we? Atheists have the same emotions that religious people have. Including; anger, happiness, hope, etc.
I don't see why it's funny that a bald person start a thread about hair style either, but I notice you insert the notion about "worrying." Is it to worry about these topics just because someone starts a thread about a topic of interest to them?
Funny how your perspective comes out with this comment of yours, but what's even more funny than who or why this thread was started is the silly attempts at logic and reason posted in this thread since it was started.
I think you got it way too confused.
Lets keep it simple in the light of bold underlined above.
How do you know emotions exist? Do you have an evidence?
Please present your evidence that the emotions of "hope or anger or happiness" exist?
Is this some kind of "chemical reaction in the brain" that indicates whether one is hopeful, angry, happy?
What if there is also a "chemical reaction in the brain" that one experiences when he/she believes in God?
Would you start believing in God because our oracle is "a chemical reaction in the brain" that one experiences if he is hopeful, angry, happy or a believer in God?
If you don't have an evidence, then please tell us why do you believe in the existence of these emotions called "hope, anger, happiness"?
Humans care about each other (empathy) and about a working civil society. God cares about things like what fabrics go with each other, when to eat shellfish, and has a prurient interest in people's private sexual proclivities. You decide which is "better".
This seems to me like humanistic nonsense. Does human history show that humans care about each other and a working civil society??? I would say quite the opposite. One of the convincing things about Christianity to me is that it accurately pegs human nature and human society as the depraved mess human history and individual experience show them to be. The track record of nations that have attempted the atheist experiment is particularly abysmal.
Likewise nonsense is the above description of what God cares about. This is not at all the teaching of the Bible or the message of the gospel. A society in which the Ten Commandments or the Golden Rule were fully operative, on the basis of a collective belief in the Creator, would be (and I believe eventually will be) a utopia beyond any humanist's wildest dreams.
This seems to me like humanistic nonsense. Does human history show that humans care about each other and a working civil society??? I would say quite the opposite. One of the convincing things about Christianity to me is that it accurately pegs human nature and human society as the depraved mess human history and individual experience show them to be. The track record of nations that have attempted the atheist experiment is particularly abysmal.
Do you live in a society where anything goes, or a society of laws? Who was the victor in WW2, the axis or the allies? What percentage of society admires Hitler or Pol Pot today?
Conversely: What percentage of US citizens are currently incarcerated, even assuming for the sake of argument that it's fine that we have the highest rate of incarceration in the West? Last I looked it was 0.7%. The means 99.3% of citizens substantially abide by the law. Even if you assume as many aren't caught as are, it's still 98.6% law abiding. I see that as quite a victory for the rule of law. It means I can go outside and take a nice walk anytime I want without concern that I will be set upon by ruffians.
Yes the world is full of atrocities and bad actors, and has a lot of problems. But the notion that the church is some last bastion of righteousness holding back the demonic hordes is pretty self-serving and deflects from the real source of the problems in the world, which are sometimes informed by the fascistic leanings of some religious elements. Lots of people of good conscience work hard every day to make society work in ways that are empathetic and compassionate. Some of those hard working folks are believers, some are not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by O'Darby
Likewise nonsense is the above description of what God cares about. This is not at all the teaching of the Bible or the message of the gospel. A society in which the Ten Commandments or the Golden Rule were fully operative, on the basis of a collective belief in the Creator, would be (and I believe eventually will be) a utopia beyond any humanist's wildest dreams.
The Golden Rule predates Christianity (it's quoted in the Hindu Upanishads and by Confucious) so once again we see a believer taking credit on behalf of the faith claiming it's the originator and protector of things that it simply appropriates. The Ten Commandments are also a rehash of earlier concepts likely going back to Hammurabi.
I think the Golden Rule is a nice condensation of what makes for a moral world, but it should be informed by whether it works or not, not by some nebulous "collective belief in the Creator". And work it does, because it is based on what all useful moral codes are based on: empathy.
In addition, regarding the world's problems -- which in my view are primarily rooted in things such as extreme and increasing economic inequality, the climate crisis and the generally increasing scarcity of overexploited resources, and the failure of the so-called "liberal experiment" to follow through on its own promises for various reasons -- I have little doubt that as the situation worsens, way too many theists will seize the opportunity to fear-monger around it to increase their influence rather than actually solve anything.
Yes, they are real emotions. I didn’t think that was controversial…
How do you know these are real emotions?
Why don't you ask for evidence?
Is it because you feel them? People tell you about it? Science proves it?
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
