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Old 12-08-2023, 09:11 AM
 
2,423 posts, read 1,451,233 times
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Is it evil for us to have pets? Would we like someone putting something foreign things on our bodies (as we put clothes on pets), putting us in cages, etc.? Is it evil for us to have zoos? In a lot of ways we play god to many animals on this planet, and we don't think that is evil. We might say we aren't torturing our pets, we're not killing zoo animals. However again, would you like to be a pet to another creature? Would you like to be put on display in a zoo?

 
Old 12-08-2023, 10:15 AM
 
Location: Northeastern US
20,020 posts, read 13,496,411 times
Reputation: 9946
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavenese View Post
Is it evil for us to have pets? Would we like someone putting something foreign things on our bodies (as we put clothes on pets), putting us in cages, etc.? Is it evil for us to have zoos? In a lot of ways we play god to many animals on this planet, and we don't think that is evil. We might say we aren't torturing our pets, we're not killing zoo animals. However again, would you like to be a pet to another creature? Would you like to be put on display in a zoo?
Zoos and marine shows are falling out of favor for just the reasons you describe. And people treat pets with varying levels of empathy. My step kid's step-monster had a dog put down because it didn't match her new couch, for example.

But it does not then follow that I should want to be a pet to some deity or whatever. We have hammered out symbiotic relationships with dogs and cats, who while they have a lot in common with humans, are sentient at a lower amplitude and have a very different calculus/needs and, importantly, little to no ego. When our rescue dog first came to live with us it tried at every opportunity to escape. We are very gratified that this stopped after a few months and it has come to trust and enjoy us in the subsequent years. If it were unhappy with us then we would find it a different situation.

If we, being evil, know how to treat our pets, then how much more should some hypothetical Heavenly Father know how to treat us ... to riff on a well known Bible verse.

I'm going to leave you to gum around the edges looking for purchase for your ideas ... drawing every possible equivalency (true or not) you can think of with flies and household pets. You are evading the basic problem that might or greater intelligence or greater anything doesn't make right, and that each being decides based on its own needs and nature what helps or harms it.
 
Old 12-09-2023, 02:48 PM
 
Location: Southwestern, USA, now.
21,020 posts, read 19,397,063 times
Reputation: 23671
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavenese View Post
I agree, but we have an imagination. So if God or a god/gods existed, more specifically if a creator
of this universe existed, could we legitimately criticize him?
No way ever!
I know how small my pea brain is.
Nothing is what it seems in the first place...I know there's a bigger picture.
I trust that the Ever Present One, by any name, has everything falling into place perfectly.
Criticize, blame, question, judge, second guess this Creator, Spiritual Being? As if...
And so far my trust and reliance on this Being, Divine Presence has worked out WELL!
 
Old 12-10-2023, 06:18 AM
 
Location: Seattle, WA
9,829 posts, read 7,268,603 times
Reputation: 7790
I can criticize a fictional character as much as I want. You Christians describe your God and ascribe him his back story and characteristics and behavior, and I criticize the ridiculous, awful character that you present.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavenese View Post
We have free will.
No, we don't. That's a complete nonsensical concept, upon any rational analysis.

Quote:
God can do anything He wants, but in a world where we can choose to love Him back, there is always a chance of some choosing to hate Him.
God does not exist. People made up that character, and describe him as some kind of conscious being that loves us. Okay. But that is an imaginary, made up character. We are evolved animals that live on one planet in a vast universe of hundreds of billions of galaxies, governed by physical interactions of particles.

Quote:
So I would argue perhaps God didn't know the choices of mankind before creation.
Mankind imagined, and therefore predates God.

Quote:
Adam and Eve weren't children in the sense of ignorance.
Also, they did not exist, and that whole nonsensical tale is not how homo sapiens got started. FYI.
 
Old 12-10-2023, 07:45 AM
 
2,423 posts, read 1,451,233 times
Reputation: 480
Quote:
Originally Posted by primaltech View Post

Mankind imagined, and therefore predates God.


Are you saying man created the creator, and thus we have the right to criticize him?
 
Old 12-10-2023, 08:35 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,840 posts, read 24,359,728 times
Reputation: 32973
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavenese View Post
Are you saying man created the creator, and thus we have the right to criticize him?
I don't see what you're smiling about. That seems like exactly what is saying...and I agree.
 
Old 12-10-2023, 09:41 AM
 
Location: Seattle, WA
9,829 posts, read 7,268,603 times
Reputation: 7790
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavenese View Post
Are you saying man created the creator, and thus we have the right to criticize him?
If humans were for some reason created by some angsty psycho madman as you insist (despite the fossil record, etc.), with no choice in the matter, then we'd still have the right to criticize your murderous sky dude.

But since that entire character is imaginary make believe with zero supporting evidence (like all religion), then we definitely have the right to criticize the concept. We have the right to criticize any and all ideas.
 
Old 12-10-2023, 11:43 AM
 
Location: Oklahoma
17,806 posts, read 13,708,449 times
Reputation: 17842
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
I don't see what you're smiling about. That seems like exactly what is saying...and I agree.
I guess it's the appropriate time to throw out the "Man created God in his own image" quote.
 
Old 12-10-2023, 12:36 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,840 posts, read 24,359,728 times
Reputation: 32973
Quote:
Originally Posted by eddie gein View Post
I guess it's the appropriate time to throw out the "Man created God in his own image" quote.
yuppers
 
Old 12-10-2023, 01:25 PM
 
Location: Virginia
10,099 posts, read 6,441,828 times
Reputation: 27663
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn View Post
No way ever!
I know how small my pea brain is.
Nothing is what it seems in the first place...I know there's a bigger picture.
I trust that the Ever Present One, by any name, has everything falling into place perfectly.
Criticize, blame, question, judge, second guess this Creator, Spiritual Being? As if...
And so far my trust and reliance on this Being, Divine Presence has worked out WELL!
Good for you that your trust and reliance has worked out "WELL!". I can understand why you would implicitly trust whatever the Creator does, as that has worked for you. However, for those who have been born into or raised in excruciating poverty; chronic and lifelong physical or mental illness; or have parents/relatives that molested or tortured them as children or trafficked them; I can fully understand how and why they might question why the Creator would put them through such horrific experiences. It might be difficult for them to see how the Creator "has everything falling into place perfectly" when they're living lives of endless pain and torment.
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