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Old 12-27-2023, 11:52 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,809 posts, read 24,310,427 times
Reputation: 32940

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Horn of ‘83 View Post
The idea of a god/creator/mover is reasonable and believed by many.
so what? think of all the superstitions people believe in.

 
Old 12-27-2023, 01:23 PM
 
Location: Northeastern US
19,999 posts, read 13,475,998 times
Reputation: 9938
Quote:
Originally Posted by Horn of ‘83 View Post
The idea of a god/creator/mover is reasonable and believed by many.
It is appealing and intuitive to some but that does not make it reasonable unless perhaps your definition of "reasonable" is "feels right to me".

How many subscribe to it does not speak to its validity one way or the other. Most people used to believe in bleeding with leeches and spontaneous generation and that there were three elements and that the sun revolved around the earth. Didn't make it so.
 
Old 12-27-2023, 01:54 PM
 
63,809 posts, read 40,087,129 times
Reputation: 7871
Quote:
Originally Posted by primaltech View Post
Your making stuff up that you want to believe about consciousness and declaring it, does not make it so. We don’t know much about consciousness… therefore the same tired old “God of the gaps” explanation? We might well at some point know a lot more about it.

Also we currently think that some animals have the neurological complexity to have consciousness… refuting your magic allegory theory.
Your lack of knowledge about what I am using to describe consciousness does NOT mean I am "making stuff up." Allegory also does not mean actual history. All life has some degree of consciousness. The other hominids were conscious but NOT our unique manifestation of it. No other life on this planet seems to have our unique kind of consciousness.
 
Old 12-27-2023, 03:33 PM
 
Location: Free State of Texas
20,441 posts, read 12,786,094 times
Reputation: 2497
Quote:
Originally Posted by mordant View Post
It is appealing and intuitive to some but that does not make it reasonable unless perhaps your definition of "reasonable" is "feels right to me".

How many subscribe to it does not speak to its validity one way or the other. Most people used to believe in bleeding with leeches and spontaneous generation and that there were three elements and that the sun revolved around the earth. Didn't make it so.
You act like believing in a higher power is some kind of fringe thing.
 
Old 12-27-2023, 03:54 PM
 
Location: Northeastern US
19,999 posts, read 13,475,998 times
Reputation: 9938
Quote:
Originally Posted by Horn of ‘83 View Post
You act like believing in a higher power is some kind of fringe thing.
No it is most certainly not something on the margins, and that wasn't remotely my point. My point, as I'm sure you actually are aware, is that popularity <> rightness. But pretending I'm delusional about the reach of religion DOES spare you from addressing anything I actually said.
 
Old 12-27-2023, 04:09 PM
 
Location: Free State of Texas
20,441 posts, read 12,786,094 times
Reputation: 2497
Quote:
Originally Posted by mordant View Post
It is appealing and intuitive to some but that does not make it reasonable unless perhaps your definition of "reasonable" is "feels right to me".

How many subscribe to it does not speak to its validity one way or the other. Most people used to believe in bleeding with leeches and spontaneous generation and that there were three elements and that the sun revolved around the earth. Didn't make it so.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mordant View Post
No it is most certainly not something on the margins, and that wasn't remotely my point. My point, as I'm sure you actually are aware, is that popularity <> rightness. But pretending I'm delusional about the reach of religion DOES spare you from addressing anything I actually said.
I was responding to the bolded.
 
Old 12-27-2023, 04:33 PM
 
Location: Northeastern US
19,999 posts, read 13,475,998 times
Reputation: 9938
Quote:
Originally Posted by Horn of ‘83 View Post
I was responding to the bolded.
OK, thanks. Some people believe in god and some people do not. Some people allow it as a possibility but aren't sure. None of those views are fringe, although hard atheism would be the smallest group, followed by soft atheism, and from there it gets dicey because of the differing ways various surveys parse and define things and whether they allow for overlap ... but I would say the biggest group would be theists. Some <> a few. Better?

I would also suggest that everyone thinks their beliefs -- whatever they are -- are reasonable or they would not have those beliefs. So saying that a belief seems reasonable to a group -- even the larger group -- is kind of a meaningless claim. It is better to lay out the reasoning and evidence and let those speak for themselves, particularly given that throughout human history majority views have been wrong. Otherwise it suggests an argument from popularity, as well as a lack of sound reasoning and good evidence.
 
Old 12-27-2023, 04:35 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,809 posts, read 24,310,427 times
Reputation: 32940
Quote:
Originally Posted by Horn of ‘83 View Post
You act like believing in a higher power is some kind of fringe thing.
I didn't see anything of the sort in his posts, but I often see christians acting as if Buddhism, Hinduism, and Islam are fringe cults.
 
Old 12-27-2023, 05:02 PM
 
Location: Free State of Texas
20,441 posts, read 12,786,094 times
Reputation: 2497
Quote:
Originally Posted by mordant View Post
OK, thanks. Some people believe in god and some people do not. Some people allow it as a possibility but aren't sure. None of those views are fringe, although hard atheism would be the smallest group, followed by soft atheism, and from there it gets dicey because of the differing ways various surveys parse and define things and whether they allow for overlap ... but I would say the biggest group would be theists. Some <> a few. Better?

I would also suggest that everyone thinks their beliefs -- whatever they are -- are reasonable or they would not have those beliefs. So saying that a belief seems reasonable to a group -- even the larger group -- is kind of a meaningless claim. It is better to lay out the reasoning and evidence and let those speak for themselves, particularly given that throughout human history majority views have been wrong. Otherwise it suggests an argument from popularity, as well as a lack of sound reasoning and good evidence.
There is no need to lay out any reasons why, to know that a belief in a higher power is reasonable. Everyone, even atheists know that.
 
Old 12-27-2023, 05:33 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,809 posts, read 24,310,427 times
Reputation: 32940
Quote:
Originally Posted by Horn of ‘83 View Post
There is no need to lay out any reasons why, to know that a belief in a higher power is reasonable. Everyone, even atheists know that.
No, actually not. Common belief, not necessarily a reasonable belief.
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