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Old 12-27-2023, 07:02 PM
 
Location: Northeastern US
19,999 posts, read 13,480,828 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Horn of ‘83 View Post
There is no need to lay out any reasons why, to know that a belief in a higher power is reasonable. Everyone, even atheists know that.
It does not seem reasonable to everyone, and specifically, not to me.

"Come, let us reason together, says the Lord", so ... lay out your reasons ... if you actually have any, and your faith is something more than an unexamined assumption.

A thing is not reasonable because you say that it is, after all.

 
Old 12-28-2023, 03:38 AM
 
Location: Germany
16,777 posts, read 4,982,520 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Horn of ‘83 View Post
The idea of a god/creator/mover is reasonable and believed by many.
Is it reasonable? If the idea was reasonable, why do people believe in different gods, or different versions of the same god?
 
Old 12-28-2023, 03:40 AM
 
Location: Germany
16,777 posts, read 4,982,520 times
Reputation: 2113
Quote:
Originally Posted by Horn of ‘83 View Post
There is no need to lay out any reasons why, to know that a belief in a higher power is reasonable. Everyone, even atheists know that.
Is that not a contradiction, that there is no need to lay out any reasons to argue why something is reasonable?
 
Old 12-28-2023, 06:37 AM
 
Location: Seattle, WA
9,829 posts, read 7,262,857 times
Reputation: 7790
Quote:
Originally Posted by Horn of ‘83 View Post
The idea of a god/creator/mover is reasonable and believed by many.
But it’s still pure human speculation with no actual supporting evidence.

And the only reasonable version of that creator god (deism), is not the one most people believe in. They mostly believe in a very unreasonable, silly, incoherent theist god of impossible and disproven myths and fairy tales, with self-contradicting, nonsensical properties and etc.
 
Old 12-28-2023, 07:00 AM
 
Location: Seattle, WA
9,829 posts, read 7,262,857 times
Reputation: 7790
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Your lack of knowledge about what I am using to describe consciousness does NOT mean I am "making stuff up."
My “lack of knowledge” of your baseless claims about these things, is not the issue here. Your baseless claims are the issue here. If consciousness = objectively factually a real God being, as you claim, then link me to the peer-reviewed science and the testable, observable evidence that supports that theory, and I’ll read up on it. Not just whatever blog posts of you rambling in circles.

Quote:
Allegory also does not mean actual history.
No sh-

Quote:
All life has some degree of consciousness.
I don’t know whether that’s true or not. Very well could be. Have you been a termite before, to confirm this?

Quote:
The other hominids were conscious but NOT our unique manifestation of it. No other life on this planet seems to have our unique kind of consciousness.
May well be true that we have the ‘most’consciousness, but that still doesn’t really fit with your Eden allegory narrative interpretation. Because consciousness would still be a function of the intelligence capabilities of the brain that houses it. We have no evidence that human consciousness isn’t just a higher degree of animal consciousness, and not a “unique kind” as you claim.
 
Old 12-28-2023, 07:35 AM
 
Location: Free State of Texas
20,441 posts, read 12,788,798 times
Reputation: 2497
Quote:
Originally Posted by mordant View Post
It does not seem reasonable to everyone, and specifically, not to me.

"Come, let us reason together, says the Lord", so ... lay out your reasons ... if you actually have any, and your faith is something more than an unexamined assumption.

A thing is not reasonable because you say that it is, after all.
You interact with believers all the time, do you not? Do you feel the same about them as you do about someone who thinks they’re a truck, as primaltech puts it?
 
Old 12-28-2023, 07:36 AM
 
Location: Free State of Texas
20,441 posts, read 12,788,798 times
Reputation: 2497
Quote:
Originally Posted by primaltech View Post
But it’s still pure human speculation with no actual supporting evidence.

And the only reasonable version of that creator god (deism), is not the one most people believe in. They mostly believe in a very unreasonable, silly, incoherent theist god of impossible and disproven myths and fairy tales, with self-contradicting, nonsensical properties and etc.
This is all your opinion, not fact.
 
Old 12-28-2023, 08:12 AM
 
Location: Northeastern US
19,999 posts, read 13,480,828 times
Reputation: 9938
Quote:
Originally Posted by Horn of ‘83 View Post
You interact with believers all the time, do you not? Do you feel the same about them as you do about someone who thinks they’re a truck, as primaltech puts it?
Another deflection from my question, confirming that you have no reasoning to support your views.

At any rate ... I do not see theists as a block. There are so many nuanced ways to understand and relate to religious ideation and of course many different kinds of religious ideation. Therefore I don't see all believers as deluded. There are plenty of believers who understand and freely acknowledge that they can't prove their beliefs but choose them for various reasons, such as because it helps them cope or whatever. That is not delusional. Also they adopt beliefs for themselves and not for others. This is not presumptuous or disrespectful to people who make different choices.
 
Old 12-28-2023, 08:42 AM
 
Location: Free State of Texas
20,441 posts, read 12,788,798 times
Reputation: 2497
Quote:
Originally Posted by mordant View Post
Another deflection from my question, confirming that you have no reasoning to support your views.

At any rate ... I do not see theists as a block. There are so many nuanced ways to understand and relate to religious ideation and of course many different kinds of religious ideation. Therefore I don't see all believers as deluded. There are plenty of believers who understand and freely acknowledge that they can't prove their beliefs but choose them for various reasons, such as because it helps them cope or whatever. That is not delusional. Also they adopt beliefs for themselves and not for others. This is not presumptuous or disrespectful to people who make different choices.
So, belief in a higher power is reasonable.
 
Old 12-28-2023, 09:00 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,809 posts, read 24,321,239 times
Reputation: 32940
Quote:
Originally Posted by Horn of ‘83 View Post
So, belief in a higher power is reasonable.
You seem to have an ongoing compulsion to put words in other people's mouths. His post was very clear and succinct.
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