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Old 11-24-2023, 08:48 AM
 
Location: Elsewhere
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mordant View Post
Sometimes I think obsessive/compulsive or autistic people -- maybe un or under-diagnosed because they present in various religious guises -- are attracted to places like this as an outlet for their uncontrollable ruminations. They will robotically repeat the same stuff over and over almost whether or not anyone responds. They are, or at least can be, different from trolls. Not here so much to get a rise out of people as to obey the voices in their heads.
You might not be too far off. I am a person with OCD. Not the germaphobic, handwashing kind as depicted in TV and movies. You can't see most of my obsessions and compulsions because they are inside my head.

But I can tell you that there is absolutely no doubt that what probably existed in seed form in my mind in childhood was fed and watered by my sin-and-death-centered religious upbringing until it bloomed into hyperreligiosity and consumed my thoughts and actions.

When I was six, God killed my same-age second cousin and friend (leukemia) despite the fact that I prayed for her every night, which of course was supposed to heal her. It was obvious to me that the nights when I prayed for Kathy without concentrating, maybe goofing off and kicking my little sister under the blankets, had counted against the healing, and I bore some responsibility for her death. God was obviously angry with me and might want to kill me, too.

I became aware that a Dark Thing was following me around waiting to get me. I would whirl around to see it, but it disappeared before I could get a glimpse. I knew it was there, though. Then one day an internal voice said, if you walk exactly 18 steps down the hall to your room, it can't follow you in there. And so it began.

It is very common that religious beliefs and OCD are often intertwined. There is so much that fits in so well. The numbers of chapters and verses, repetitive prayers, ritual.
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Old 11-24-2023, 02:38 PM
 
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اعوذ بالله من الشيطان الرجيم

I seek refuge to Allah from Satan the outcast.

the above prayer cures OCD and sacks away Satan

And if an evil whisper comes to you from Shaitan (Satan),
then seek refuge with Allah. Verily, He is All-Hearer, All-Knower
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Old 11-24-2023, 06:01 PM
 
Location: Northeastern US
19,717 posts, read 13,262,632 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801 View Post
You might not be too far off. I am a person with OCD. Not the germaphobic, handwashing kind as depicted in TV and movies. You can't see most of my obsessions and compulsions because they are inside my head.

But I can tell you that there is absolutely no doubt that what probably existed in seed form in my mind in childhood was fed and watered by my sin-and-death-centered religious upbringing until it bloomed into hyperreligiosity and consumed my thoughts and actions.

When I was six, God killed my same-age second cousin and friend (leukemia) despite the fact that I prayed for her every night, which of course was supposed to heal her. It was obvious to me that the nights when I prayed for Kathy without concentrating, maybe goofing off and kicking my little sister under the blankets, had counted against the healing, and I bore some responsibility for her death. God was obviously angry with me and might want to kill me, too.

I became aware that a Dark Thing was following me around waiting to get me. I would whirl around to see it, but it disappeared before I could get a glimpse. I knew it was there, though. Then one day an internal voice said, if you walk exactly 18 steps down the hall to your room, it can't follow you in there. And so it began.

It is very common that religious beliefs and OCD are often intertwined. There is so much that fits in so well. The numbers of chapters and verses, repetitive prayers, ritual.
I totally get that but I was thinking more of people who post repetitively (you don't) even when people are sort of slowly backing away and not engaging with the material.

On a different site there's a guy who responds to others almost entirely with YouTube links, usually either only tangentially related to the topic at hand, or not at all. Everyone expresses annoyance and bafflement and he keeps doing it anyway. Rather than just assume he's Looney Tunes, I see it as a compulsion that he by turns cannot "shut off" and isn't even entirely aware of the inappropriate / unhelpful nature of the posts. It helps me to have a little compassion for such posters provided they are not overtly cruel or something.

My stepson suffers from the flavor of OCD you're talking about and it's no walk in the park, either. But I think it's a rather different beast from what I had in mind.
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Old 11-24-2023, 10:50 PM
 
Location: Elsewhere
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mordant View Post
I totally get that but I was thinking more of people who post repetitively (you don't) even when people are sort of slowly backing away and not engaging with the material.

On a different site there's a guy who responds to others almost entirely with YouTube links, usually either only tangentially related to the topic at hand, or not at all. Everyone expresses annoyance and bafflement and he keeps doing it anyway. Rather than just assume he's Looney Tunes, I see it as a compulsion that he by turns cannot "shut off" and isn't even entirely aware of the inappropriate / unhelpful nature of the posts. It helps me to have a little compassion for such posters provided they are not overtly cruel or something.

My stepson suffers from the flavor of OCD you're talking about and it's no walk in the park, either. But I think it's a rather different beast from what I had in mind.
My point was that religiosity feeds the OCD and may explain, in part, the people who auto-respond with same Bible quotes over and over, as well as the YouTube situation you are talking about.

As an example, here on the Christianity forum, I (and others) have tried to have conversations wiith posters about why we don't buy into the idea that the Bible is the literal "Word of God", not just making the statement, but offering well-thought-out reasoning as to our view.

Ninety-nine percent of the time, do you know what the response is? 2 Timothy 3:16.

No words of their own, even in disagreement, no actual reading and digestion of what was offered, not even an equally thought-out response. Just that quote, as if on auto-pilot, as if it is a compulsion brought on by the anxiety, for OCD IS an anxiety disorder, born of fear of what might happen if they let themselves think.
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Old 11-25-2023, 01:32 PM
 
Location: Northeastern US
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801 View Post
My point was that religiosity feeds the OCD and may explain, in part, the people who auto-respond with same Bible quotes over and over, as well as the YouTube situation you are talking about.

As an example, here on the Christianity forum, I (and others) have tried to have conversations wiith posters about why we don't buy into the idea that the Bible is the literal "Word of God", not just making the statement, but offering well-thought-out reasoning as to our view.

Ninety-nine percent of the time, do you know what the response is? 2 Timothy 3:16.

No words of their own, even in disagreement, no actual reading and digestion of what was offered, not even an equally thought-out response. Just that quote, as if on auto-pilot, as if it is a compulsion brought on by the anxiety, for OCD IS an anxiety disorder, born of fear of what might happen if they let themselves think.
O,IC ... yes I completely agree with that.

I might even go so far as to say that religion can produce OCD in people genetically predisposed to it ... acting as an environmental stressor or trigger. Religion + epigenetics for the win!
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Old 11-25-2023, 04:44 PM
 
2,690 posts, read 2,607,739 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801 View Post

As an example, here on the Christianity forum, I (and others) have tried to have conversations wiith posters about why we don't buy into the idea that the Bible is the literal "Word of God", not just making the statement, but offering well-thought-out reasoning as to our view.

Ninety-nine percent of the time, do you know what the response is? 2 Timothy 3:16.
not every thing in the Bible is from Allah
it contains things changed and added by humen
which make it not ntegrated and cause confusions and make some people who read the Bible turn into atheists
How can you say, ‘We are wise,
And the law of the Lord is with us’?
Look, the false pen of the scribe certainly works falsehood.
Book of Jeremiah 8
Quote:
With regard to the Gospels that the Christians have,
there are four Gospels, Matthew, Mark, Luke and John.
They agree that Luke and Mark did not see the Messiah;
instead, he was seen by Matthew and John.
These four accounts which they call the Gospel, and they call each one of them a Gospel,
were written by these men after the Messiah had been taken up into heaven.
They did not say that they are the word of Allah or that the Messiah conveyed them from Allah,
rather they narrated some of the words of the Messiah and some of his deeds and miracles.”

Moreover, these books which were written after the time of the Messiah did not remain in their original form.
The original versions were lost long ago.https://islamqa.info/en/answers/4751...ut-the-gospels

Last edited by truth_teller; 11-25-2023 at 05:39 PM..
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Old 11-25-2023, 06:57 PM
 
Location: Elsewhere
87,952 posts, read 83,773,798 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mordant View Post
O,IC ... yes I completely agree with that.

I might even go so far as to say that religion can produce OCD in people genetically predisposed to it ... acting as an environmental stressor or trigger. Religion + epigenetics for the win!
That's exactly what I think happened to me. It's in other family members, and when I remember some of my paternal grandmother's words and behaviors, I see it, too.
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Old 11-25-2023, 07:04 PM
 
Location: Kansas
25,555 posts, read 21,738,439 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
Yep, that seems like the truthful and more logical doctrine but I think there is an extremely minor number of Christians who totally believe in this old and original school of thought.

The majority of masses have been led to believe in the modern day Christianity that form a belief that Jesus is your savor and the only way and you are saved from the hellfire. And to make it even more attractive, once saved is always saved.
Works, basically go out of the window.
I agree that those Christians who totally believe in the old and original school of thought is an extremely minor number of Christians. I had a relative (Grandpa's cousin) that started a church in the 1950s, "The People's Church in South Bend, IN. He was a member of the Church of the Brethren and thought they had become too progressive, so we are talking hardcore, fire and brimstone.

I am not even sure what happened, but I had never heard "once saved always saved" and "saved by faith alone" (believing Jesus is God). I had attended another Protestant church in the 1960s also, but never heard that. It is a very popular belief, and I think it does help to fill the church coffers.

I left Christianity due to the progressiveness, and I was unable to accept the attitude that this "once saved always saved" gave those Christians the "holier than thou" attitude. A little too arrogant for my taste. Religion should not bring about arrogance.

Most feel "works" are not necessary, and I actually asked a devout Christian "If you actively believe in God, how would you not do good works?" She got it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
So if Islam or God or religion prescribes to not rape, steal, kill the innocent, don’t do injustice to others, live with honesty and be peaceful - then - what you are saying is, that if you try to follow these guidelines you become a pet or a slave, and it’s a problem and a flaw - BUT - going against these prescriptions your soul will become “mature”, and you will BECOME God?
I believe God addresses us through our heart. I believe the Ten Commandments were simply that, along with some of the other Biblical Laws.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
As you are a Muslim, your mindset and mine are not remotely compatible. We are God's children and cannot become His pets or slaves! The point is NOT to AVOID those behaviors because they are prohibited by the command of God. We are to avoid them because the kind of Spirit we are supposed to BECOME would not ever WANT to do them!!
To me, it is tied together. God speaks to us through our heart/soul, if we listen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801 View Post
My point was that religiosity feeds the OCD and may explain, in part, the people who auto-respond with same Bible quotes over and over, as well as the YouTube situation you are talking about.

As an example, here on the Christianity forum, I (and others) have tried to have conversations wiith posters about why we don't buy into the idea that the Bible is the literal "Word of God", not just making the statement, but offering well-thought-out reasoning as to our view.

Ninety-nine percent of the time, do you know what the response is? 2 Timothy 3:16.

No words of their own, even in disagreement, no actual reading and digestion of what was offered, not even an equally thought-out response. Just that quote, as if on auto-pilot, as if it is a compulsion brought on by the anxiety, for OCD IS an anxiety disorder, born of fear of what might happen if they let themselves think.
Do churches have "Bible study" anymore? That might be the kind of discussion they would have. My brother went to a church in South Bend, IN. He was carrying his Bible with him. It was a Christian church. He was told that he could not bring a Bible into that church. I guess the minister there must be the final word and the only one capable of interpreting what the Bible says?

I had two friends in high school. One had a grandfather that was a minister, and the other one had a father and later a husband that were ministers. While one would "debate" religion, the other refused and became angry, and I often think that was out of ignorance other than being able to quote the Biblical verses of her grandfather.

I read extensively about all religions when I was younger, a few decades ago. I feel that when one has found the belief or not that leaves their soul peaceful, they are "there". No more troubling questions about the belief, just a peaceful feeling.
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Old 11-25-2023, 07:15 PM
 
Location: Northeastern US
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnywhereElse View Post
My brother went to a church in South Bend, IN. He was carrying his Bible with him. It was a Christian church. He was told that he could not bring a Bible into that church. I guess the minister there must be the final word and the only one capable of interpreting what the Bible says?
In my experience that is an extremely fringe view and probably for the reasons you suggest. Most evangelicals would not show up at church without a Bible, any more than they would show up without their clothes on.

Of course that doesn't mean they READ it or know that much about its content. But typically people are invited to look up passages and follow along with the preaching and are encouraged to study it for themselves (in theory; in practice what they are encouraged to do is to learn their church or denomination's particular interpretations and emphases).
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Old 11-25-2023, 07:41 PM
 
Location: Elsewhere
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mordant View Post
In my experience that is an extremely fringe view and probably for the reasons you suggest. Most evangelicals would not show up at church without a Bible, any more than they would show up without their clothes on.

Of course that doesn't mean they READ it or know that much about its content. But typically people are invited to look up passages and follow along with the preaching and are encouraged to study it for themselves (in theory; in practice what they are encouraged to do is to learn their church or denomination's particular interpretations and emphases).
As I heard a woman say recently, she had questions and was given the verse, "Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not to thine own understanding". She said to the man who said it to her, "So I'm supposed to lean to YOUR understanding?" Loved it.

But I am not even sure what's studied at some of these Bible studies. It seems that a large part of the Bible study, at least from some of the posters on here, is simply memorizing verses to be quoted in lieu of actual dialogue. I wouldn't call that "studying".
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