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Old 11-27-2023, 06:53 AM
 
Location: Midwest City, Oklahoma
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With all the fighting between Jews and Muslims lately, I've come to hate both even more than I already did. I also came to appreciate Christianity more than I did(except evangelicals who are literally insane). I say this as someone who would generally be considered an atheist, and who thinks Christianity is an absurdity both theologically and practically. It is fundamentally an anti-Darwinian religion which is only good at subverting non-Abrahamic authority, breeding, and producing (willing) slaves.

Judaism created the first ethno-state/nation-state and was essentially the model for the most hateful nationalists of the 19th and 20th-centuries. Judaism is a supremacist religion which sees the entire world as its enemy, jealous and antagonistic toward all. Which wishes to either make slaves of all goyim or genocide them entirely.

Islam wants to conquer the world, to enslave all mankind. It is the most ruthless religion on the entire planet which even adopts polygamy as a means to maximize birthrates and to reward conquerors and other psychopaths. It is the most closely related to Darwinian principles of the three Abrahamic religions and it amazes me that it didn't completely conquer/subjugate Christianity. It was only by Christians ceasing to be Christians(centralizing authority, embracing materialism/colonialism/usury/exploitation/war/conquest) that saved them from destruction.

Yet, I consider Christianity by far the most superior ethically and morally. It just can't exist except as a corruption of itself, and only in countries where the rulers are never genuinely guided by Christian precepts(regardless of their pretenses).

With that said, as the utilitarian Darwinian that I am, I can't help but respect Islam, and to a lesser extent Judaism. While at the same time, looking upon Christianity with disgust. Those two psychopathic religions are simply superior to Christianity because they are human. Christianity is an abomination which will inevitably and rightfully end in oblivion.

I know you other atheists don't care to argue about the specifics of the three Abrahamic religions because you consider them all equally wrong and stupid. Which is fine, but remember, atheism is and will always be an evolutionary dead-end.

Last edited by Redshadowz; 11-27-2023 at 07:04 AM..

 
Old 11-27-2023, 07:49 AM
 
Location: Northeastern US
19,717 posts, read 13,262,632 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redshadowz View Post
I know you other atheists don't care to argue about the specifics of the three Abrahamic religions because you consider them all equally wrong and stupid. Which is fine, but remember, atheism is and will always be an evolutionary dead-end.
I regard atheism AS an evolution and as the only direction in which we can evolve our thought processes that will free us from the madness of sectarian violence and hatred.

Or are you postulating that humans ultimately can't function without some sort of religious belief? Why would you regard atheism as an evolutionary dead end?
 
Old 11-27-2023, 08:06 AM
 
Location: Northeastern US
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redshadowz View Post
Judaism created the first ethno-state/nation-state and was essentially the model for the most hateful nationalists of the 19th and 20th-centuries. Judaism is a supremacist religion which sees the entire world as its enemy, jealous and antagonistic toward all. Which wishes to either make slaves of all goyim or genocide them entirely.
I think it's more that any particular goyim constituency is either for them or against them. Their traditional adversaries, Arabs / Muslims, yes they want to enslave or genocide. That's obvious now if it wasn't before. But why would they go to war with us, the way we mindlessly fawn all over them and enable and encourage and subsidize them? And there's the practical matter that Judaism (whether religious or just cultural) comprises but 1.5% of the world population. They HAVE to coexist to an extent.

Islam by contrast is poised to take over as the majority religion from Christianity, in terms of numbers. Some of those folks want a global caliphate at the point of a sword, and I think that is a little more credible threat than whatever secret ambitions of global hegemony that Judaism might theoretically harbor. Although Islam is ascendant in numbers only because they seem to have a lock on impoverished and uneducated populations with their high reproduction rates, so I am not exactly quaking in my boots there either.

Then of course there is Christianity with its very checkered history on human rights and its tendency to authoritarianism, especially when threatened.

The only hope for humanity IMO is for religious impulses to fade away and ultimately die out -- for humanity to discard all that turgid nonsense and turn to reason. I do not dream of an atheist hegemony in the world; rather, to be sustainable, rationalism must be voluntarily chosen by enough people. And as religion dies out, atheism also dies out as a necessary abstraction. When unbelief becomes unremarkable, atheism becomes unnecessary, conceptually speaking. It would be like identifying as a-philatelist if you don't collect stamps. Nevertheless ... not "collecting" gods will eventually have to prevail if humanity is to survive and thrive, so in that sense atheism must prevail as a mindset.
 
Old 11-27-2023, 09:10 AM
 
Location: North by Northwest
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redshadowz View Post
Judaism is a supremacist religion which sees the entire world as its enemy, jealous and antagonistic toward all. Which wishes to either make slaves of all goyim or genocide them entirely.
You sure hit the nail on the head. I’m just lying in wait to enslave and murder my non-Jewish wife and—depending on whom you ask—my non-Jewish son.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Redshadowz View Post
I know you other atheists don't care to argue about the specifics of the three Abrahamic religions because you consider them all equally wrong and stupid. Which is fine, but remember, atheism is and will always be an evolutionary dead-end.
As an atheist, I don’t grant credence to any religion from a theocratic perspective. But I also do not oppose or spew hatred against any religion as a whole. I certainly take issue with (and speak out against) fundamentalists and extremists of all religious stripes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mordant View Post
I think it's more that any particular goyim constituency is either for them or against them. Their traditional adversaries, Arabs / Muslims, yes they want to enslave or genocide. That's obvious now if it wasn't before. But why would they go to war with us, the way we mindlessly fawn all over them and enable and encourage and subsidize them? And there's the practical matter that Judaism (whether religious or just cultural) comprises but 1.5% of the world population. They HAVE to coexist to an extent.
0.2% actually, and despite the high birthrate among the Orthodox population, the low birthrate among secular, Reform, Conservative, and Reconstructionist Jews makes that proportion continue to become slowly and steadily smaller.
 
Old 11-27-2023, 09:13 AM
 
Location: Elsewhere
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Thread was reported. It teeters on the edge of political and/or current events spectrum. Let it not go there, or it will have to be closed. Leaving the discussion open for now. Thanks.
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Old 11-27-2023, 10:47 AM
 
Location: Middle America
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Some really have difficulty separating the 1) roots and originating aspects / writings of religions, from the 2) altered / morphed modern versions of them practiced among people / churches, and the 3) even more corrupted and politicized versions of them kicked around by governments and tyrannies.

Such people too easily pick up on and are swayed by 2 and 3 above, and become completely oblivious to and ignorant of 1, which would be the only genuine one that should count. So it's all backasswards. Instead of a helpers and benefits to humanity, religions become curses and problems. Instead of promoting inner peace and unity, they promote outer conflicts and wars.
 
Old 11-27-2023, 12:19 PM
 
15,792 posts, read 6,856,651 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redshadowz View Post
With all the fighting between Jews and Muslims lately, I've come to hate both even more than I already did. I also came to appreciate Christianity more than I did(except evangelicals who are literally insane). I say this as someone who would generally be considered an atheist, and who thinks Christianity is an absurdity both theologically and practically. It is fundamentally an anti-Darwinian religion which is only good at subverting non-Abrahamic authority, breeding, and producing (willing) slaves.

Judaism created the first ethno-state/nation-state and was essentially the model for the most hateful nationalists of the 19th and 20th-centuries. Judaism is a supremacist religion which sees the entire world as its enemy, jealous and antagonistic toward all. Which wishes to either make slaves of all goyim or genocide them entirely.

Islam wants to conquer the world, to enslave all mankind. It is the most ruthless religion on the entire planet which even adopts polygamy as a means to maximize birthrates and to reward conquerors and other psychopaths. It is the most closely related to Darwinian principles of the three Abrahamic religions and it amazes me that it didn't completely conquer/subjugate Christianity. It was only by Christians ceasing to be Christians(centralizing authority, embracing materialism/colonialism/usury/exploitation/war/conquest) that saved them from destruction.

Yet, I consider Christianity by far the most superior ethically and morally. It just can't exist except as a corruption of itself, and only in countries where the rulers are never genuinely guided by Christian precepts(regardless of their pretenses).

With that said, as the utilitarian Darwinian that I am, I can't help but respect Islam, and to a lesser extent Judaism. While at the same time, looking upon Christianity with disgust. Those two psychopathic religions are simply superior to Christianity because they are human. Christianity is an abomination which will inevitably and rightfully end in oblivion.

I know you other atheists don't care to argue about the specifics of the three Abrahamic religions because you consider them all equally wrong and stupid. Which is fine, but remember, atheism is and will always be an evolutionary dead-end.
A brave post. However religions and human behavior are two separate and independent things. Religion may have improper influence on people, for both good and wicked actions. I believe Geography has to a greater extent influence on these 3 religions. Although conquered by the Mughals from Iran, India never lost its own religion under several years of Moghul rule. It flourished, absorbing parts of Islam in both religion and culture. There were no Hindu slaves. Art, music, dance and poetry flourished, with cross cultural conversations, even though frowned upon by Islam. There was some pressure to convert, to escape tax.
WHen Christianity came to India, Hinduism did not perish, it hardly made a dent. There were politically instigated religious conflicts but all religions remained. In parts of India Hindus, Muslims and Christians did business together and commerce mitigated any religious conflicts.
I often wonder why this is so. Partly due to Hinduism being open to different paths to the Divine, but I am not sure that is the only thing. I think the climate, plenty of natural resources, rivers and mountains, all aid a more temperate mind set. Dessert and harsh winters can create harsher personalities.
 
Old 11-27-2023, 05:06 PM
 
Location: North by Northwest
9,309 posts, read 12,897,127 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cb2008 View Post
A brave post. However religions and human behavior are two separate and independent things. Religion may have improper influence on people, for both good and wicked actions. I believe Geography has to a greater extent influence on these 3 religions. Although conquered by the Mughals from Iran, India never lost its own religion under several years of Moghul rule. It flourished, absorbing parts of Islam in both religion and culture. There were no Hindu slaves. Art, music, dance and poetry flourished, with cross cultural conversations, even though frowned upon by Islam. There was some pressure to convert, to escape tax.
WHen Christianity came to India, Hinduism did not perish, it hardly made a dent. There were politically instigated religious conflicts but all religions remained. In parts of India Hindus, Muslims and Christians did business together and commerce mitigated any religious conflicts.
I often wonder why this is so. Partly due to Hinduism being open to different paths to the Divine, but I am not sure that is the only thing. I think the climate, plenty of natural resources, rivers and mountains, all aid a more temperate mind set. Dessert and harsh winters can create harsher personalities.
You realize you’re praising textbook Islamophobia and anti-Semitism, right? Or are you willing to look past that because you think it provides the perfect springboard to proclaim Hindu supremacy?
 
Old 11-27-2023, 06:32 PM
 
Location: Northeastern US
19,717 posts, read 13,262,632 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElijahAstin View Post
0.2% actually, and despite the high birthrate among the Orthodox population, the low birthrate among secular, Reform, Conservative, and Reconstructionist Jews makes that proportion continue to become slowly and steadily smaller.
Hm, I was going by my (obviously failing) memory there, but if those differential birth rates are accurate then another effect besides making Jews a smaller and smaller minority is it will make them more and more extremist overall in time.
 
Old 11-27-2023, 06:52 PM
 
Location: North by Northwest
9,309 posts, read 12,897,127 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mordant View Post
Hm, I was going by my (obviously failing) memory there, but if those differential birth rates are accurate then another effect besides making Jews a smaller and smaller minority is it will make them more and more extremist overall in time.
You’re not wrong as far as the religiously observant go, which is also the case with Christianity (Evangelicals rapidly growing and Mainline Protestants and other liberal-to-moderate sects steadily shrinking).

But the rates of people who identify as “just Jewish” without gravitating toward any particular denomination (they tend to be very relaxed and loosely observant, unlike self-identified non-denominational Christians) and/or people who identify as Jewish by ethnocultural background only are skyrocketing. Consequently, the Reform and especially Conservative movements have really been hurting.
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