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Old 12-16-2023, 07:59 PM
 
63,775 posts, read 40,038,426 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
It is not reasonable because for a Christian Jesus came to reveal and demonstrate the true nature of God to our ancestors who were misguided in their beliefs because the scriptures failed to achieve their intent. If they had, Jesus would not have been necessary. It is a matter of personal preference how you answer the disingenuous question. He is worshiping the God revealed and represented BY Jesus (whatever He believes is the actual status involved), IMO.

Hebrews 8:7 King James Version (KJV)
7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oakback View Post
I must have misunderstood the original question. Wether the doctrine of the Trinity has contributed to a decline in Christianity ( whatever that means)

I merely stated my truth, that doctrine, dogma, religion etc is not the object of my worship.

I suspect your question regarding Christ's Divinity is for one of the other multitude of threads debating that topic.
You misunderstood nothing, Oakback. GoCardinal is just pushing his Muslim beliefs and sniping at yours. You are correct that he is off-topic in this thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
You said, you worship Jesus.

What does that mean?

How do you know who and what is Jesus if we take religion, Bible and History out of it?
The entire premise of Christianity is that Jesus (however and whatever way) reveals and demonstrates God such that to know the "mind of God" we are to use the "mind of Christ,"(Logos) period. That has been interpreted in different and" disputed ways but it is the central feature of Christianity. So to worship Jesus is to worship the "mind of God" Jesus represented (whatever that means).

 
Old 12-16-2023, 08:08 PM
 
Location: Florida
5,493 posts, read 7,333,090 times
Reputation: 1507
Ah. Nevertheless, regarding the last question.
How do I believe?
From personal experience. That's how.
 
Old 12-16-2023, 10:55 PM
 
6,115 posts, read 3,082,979 times
Reputation: 2409
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
You misunderstood nothing, Oakback. GoCardinal is just pushing his Muslim beliefs and sniping at yours. You are correct that he is off-topic in this thread.
The entire premise of Christianity is that Jesus (however and whatever way) reveals and demonstrates God such that to know the "mind of God" we are to use the "mind of Christ,"(Logos) period. That has been interpreted in different and" disputed ways but it is the central feature of Christianity. So to worship Jesus is to worship the "mind of God" Jesus represented (whatever that means).
So, from worshipping to Jesus who is a neither a God nor a human but he is both at the same time, you have now come to worshipping “the mind of God”, and you confess that you don’t know what it means when you say “whatever that means”?
 
Old 12-17-2023, 09:26 AM
 
29,526 posts, read 9,696,629 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
So, from worshipping to Jesus who is a neither a God nor a human but he is both at the same time, you have now come to worshipping “the mind of God”, and you confess that you don’t know what it means when you say “whatever that means”?
If one decides to trace a circle with a pencil, how many times can a person trace that same circle before no long tracing the same circle?
 
Old 12-17-2023, 11:33 AM
 
Location: Ohio
24,621 posts, read 19,152,432 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
We often hear that Christianity is the biggest source of Atheism in the western world.

There are also some very strong indications that Trinity is a made up concept that was rolled out long after Jesus left the scene. This was not the part of Jesus’s original message. There is no word “Trinity” in the Bible while the ENTIRE base of modern day Christianity is staked on this philosophy.

I guess the question to Atheists, who were former Christians, is; do you think it’s a false concept that is flawed to the core and has been failing the test of time?
Of course, it's flawed.

The x-tians tried to deceptively pass themselves off as monotheists but the Heathens and Pagans saw right through that and correctly pointed out that x-tians are monolatrists, worshipping one god to the exclusion of all other gods.

There are other gods because Yahweh says so and his words are "infallible" and then we have the Book of the Wars of Yahweh.

That book no longer exists or hasn't been found yet but Yahweh sides with a group of gods to fight against other gods.

That book is quoted by Isaiah, Ezekiel, and few of the latter prophets and then one or two verses are in Numbers or Leviticus (can't remember which).

We also have much older parallel sources that describe that particular conflict.

The x-tians concocted the Trinity to deceive the Heathens and Pagans into signing up.

Given the extreme anachronisms displayed by so many, I should point out that early x-tians never read the Hebrew texts and they were not part of the canon.

The Hebrew texts and Greek texts weren't combined until more than 1,000 years later during the Renaissance Period and the only reason they were is so x-tians could mock the Jews with the insulting term "Old Testament" when they weren't murdering Jews or confiscating their property.

That raises an interesting question, which is why would the Yahweh-Jesus-Ghosty-thing tell x-tians to drive Jews from their territories or murder them or confiscate their property?
 
Old 12-17-2023, 11:53 AM
 
Location: Ohio
24,621 posts, read 19,152,432 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EDnurse View Post
Yes, it is a flawed concept that was added in John.

As a former Catholic, I think Christianity was invented by Paul of Tarsus. Most of the NT was written by him.

Protestant denominations and especially Evangelicals are ignorant of history and the Bible too. There are so many contradictions it’s appalling. But they continue to pick and choose as it suits them.

I do believe Evangelicals are the biggest source of atheists at this time. Their political meddling is revolting.
Yes, it was entirely the Saul of Tarsus Wait I'll Change My Name to Paul to Hide the Fact that I was a Bounty-Hunter Show.

There is only one complete work, which is Codex Sinaiticus dated to 350 CE.

These other 25,000 manuscripts (snicker) are nothing but literal fragments and scraps of paper that were pieced together to form the 2,813 “witnesses” as they are generally called by Christian theologians.

Of those 2,813 Greek “witnesses,” better than 90% are based on Byzantine doctrine. About 10% (200 or so) deviate greatly from Byzantine doctrine (meaning 100s of lines of disputed text). All 2,813 manuscripts, none of which are complete by any stretch of the imagination, are dated after 800 CE. Only about 5 of the 2,813 Greek manuscripts are actually used in translation, because the others conflict so badly. Those five numbered manuscripts are:

1) #33 circa 800 CE is very Alexandrian in doctrine. It contains parts of the gospels, Acts, Paul, and the catholic Epistles, which differ vastly from all other Epistles (um, again, more than 40 disputed lines of text).

2) #81 has a given date of 1044 CE (um, that’s real ancient – yeah right) contains complete Acts, Paul, and the catholic Epistles. The text of Acts mostly agrees with Codex Alexandrinus.

3) #1739 circa 950 CE contains most (but not all) of Acts, Paul, and the catholic Epistles. Another that shows Alexandrian influence.

4) E1 circa 1300 CE (another, um, “ancient” manuscript) These are a collection of gospel fragments that appear to be based on the Ceasarean school of thought circa 300 CE.

5) E13 circa 1400 CE. These are a collection of gospel fragments. This group is very important, because it proves John 7:53 to 8:11 is a later addition

Many of those texts have emendations.

If you're familiar with Cumont, Kroll, Pingree, Neugebauer et al they are Greek scholars who restore and translate Greek texts.

Those texts were all written on papyrus or in some cases sheepskin with non-permanent ink.

There are often lacunas of several pages, chapters, paragraphs, sentences, or one or more words within a sentence.

They often emended the manuscripts by adding words based on what other manuscripts say but given that there were so many different flavors of x-tianity that isn't the proper thing to do.
 
Old 12-31-2023, 04:03 PM
 
6,324 posts, read 4,320,139 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thoreau424 View Post
^ Nope. LOL
*whistles appreciatively* How long did it take you to write that? A couple of hours per word, at least. Especially considering there's a carot involved AND a word in all caps. That's some advanced mental taxation right there.

Of course, more advanced writers would have been able to give even ONE example of how anything I said was wrong, but, I understand that you're doing your best.
 
Old 01-02-2024, 03:31 AM
 
966 posts, read 512,238 times
Reputation: 2504
I wonder where this trinity idea came from too. But nothing about Christianity or any of the other faith based religions makes any sense to me anyway. Which is not at all how I felt when I "believed". It's hard to see things differently from Christian beliefs in America because the indoctrination most people get is extremely powerful almost from birth. Christians shun non believers just like the Mormons do too, its just done in a more subtle manner, but its there none the less.

As a Zen practitioner who, strangely, lives in a Christian ecumenical retirement community, I see this up close and personal every day. People don't necessarily reject me since most of the folks have no idea what Zen even is. All they know is they and I ain't the same, and I'm probably going to hell, LOL. But that's OK, I have my trip and they have theirs. Hell is when we butt heads w/ other people over beliefs. It doesn't even have to be humans. Getting a cat to do what you want them to do vs what they want to do is a wonderful exercise in conflict resolution and peace making. The cat usually wins though.
 
Old 01-02-2024, 08:18 AM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
28,090 posts, read 29,934,993 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stephenMM View Post
Christians shun non believers just like the Mormons do too, its just done in a more subtle manner, but its there none the less.
Two points: Mormons are Christians. Most Christians, including Mormons, do not shun unbelievers.
 
Old 01-02-2024, 09:35 AM
 
29,526 posts, read 9,696,629 times
Reputation: 3466
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
Two points: Mormons are Christians. Most Christians, including Mormons, do not shun unbelievers.
One point: your opinion is not shared by everyone.

Mormonism categorizes itself within Christianity, and nearly all Mormons self-identify as Christian. For some who define Christianity within the doctrines of Catholicism, Eastern and Oriental Orthodoxy, the Churches of the East, and Protestantism, Mormonism's differences place it outside the umbrella of Christianity.

Mormonism - Wikipedia
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