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Old 12-12-2023, 10:20 PM
 
63,391 posts, read 39,647,364 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
No I did not. There is a big difference between thinking the scriptures themselves tell us about God and the descriptions of Jesus's actions, attitudes, and character in the scripture narrative tell us about God. Your belief in the former is misguided.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Horn of ‘83 View Post
So you can use the scriptures to make your point but I can’t to make mine.
That is correct if your point is to know God and Jesus. The scriptures are spiritually immature, primitive, and barbaric misinterpretations of God and are misleading. Only JESUS revealed and personally demonstrated the True Nature and Holy Spirit of God (especially on the Cross), NOT the scriptures.
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Old 12-13-2023, 04:54 AM
 
6,115 posts, read 3,048,228 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
That is correct if your point is to know God and Jesus. The scriptures are spiritually immature, primitive, and barbaric misinterpretations of God and are misleading. Only JESUS revealed and personally demonstrated the True Nature and Holy Spirit of God (especially on the Cross), NOT the scriptures.
So what was the point of holy scriptures by God?
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Old 12-13-2023, 05:06 AM
 
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Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
No it is NOT!. It is by learning the persona of Jesus Himself and His "mind of Christ" which is identical to the "mind of God" and His Holy Spirit. If you are NOT "in Christ" (in the "mind of Christ") you are not guided by His Holy Spirit, no matter what mumbo jumbo or supernatural magic you believe. Knowing God and Jesus is eternal life, and that is all about your state of mind (Spirit).

Philippians 2:5-30 King James Version
5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:

The Holy Spirit IS the True Nature of God revealed, described, and demonstrated unambiguously by Jesus. He IS agape love, kindness, mercy, compassion, gentleness, unconditional acceptance, empathy, sympathy, tolerance, long-suffering, decency, friendliness, peacefulness, joyfulness, understanding, care, concern, solicitude, solicitousness, sensitivity, tender-heartedness, soft-heartedness, warm-heartedness, warmth, love, brotherly love, tenderness, gentleness, mercifulness, leniency, lenience, consideration, kindness, humanity, humaneness, kind-heartedness, charity, benevolence, and He is non-judgmental.
OK let’s give it a shot

Tell me about Jesus without getting any information or reference from the Bible.
And you should provide your source of information as well - and it better not be something like,”it was revealed to me in a dram” or “I have a personal connection with God where God, out of 8 billion people, especially chose ME to have a one on one conversation during my hallucination episodes”. Because this will make God someone who is unfair and not just.

If God speaks to you to make you a believer then he should take turns on all 8 billion people and speak to all - one on one with EVERYONE. And that will make him fair and just.
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Old 12-13-2023, 10:47 AM
 
63,391 posts, read 39,647,364 times
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Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
OK let’s give it a shot

Tell me about Jesus without getting any information or reference from the Bible.
And you should provide your source of information as well - and it better not be something like,”it was revealed to me in a dram” or “I have a personal connection with God where God, out of 8 billion people, especially chose ME to have a one on one conversation during my hallucination episodes”. Because this will make God someone who is unfair and not just.

If God speaks to you to make you a believer then he should take turns on all 8 billion people and speak to all - one on one with EVERYONE. And that will make him fair and just.
The Bible tells us ABOUT Jesus and we learn from what HE DID and His attitude and character reveal the Holy Spirit and True Nature of God, NOT our primitive ancestors' INTERPRETATIONS of Him and the inspirations of prophets. Jesus reveals God to us, NOT the scripture. Scripture reveals Jesus to us. Jesus is the Word of God (Logos) NOT scripture.
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Old 12-13-2023, 11:09 AM
 
Location: So Cal/AZ
928 posts, read 759,059 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
OK let’s give it a shot

Tell me about Jesus without getting any information or reference from the Bible.
And you should provide your source of information as well
- and it better not be something like,”it was revealed to me in a dram” or “I have a personal connection with God where God, out of 8 billion people, especially chose ME to have a one on one conversation during my hallucination episodes”. Because this will make God someone who is unfair and not just.

If God speaks to you to make you a believer then he should take turns on all 8 billion people and speak to all - one on one with EVERYONE. And that will make him fair and just.

https://www.urantia.org/urantia-book...eachings-jesus
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Old 12-13-2023, 07:16 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
The Bible tells us ABOUT Jesus and we learn from what HE DID and His attitude and character reveal the Holy Spirit and True Nature of God, NOT our primitive ancestors' INTERPRETATIONS of Him and the inspirations of prophets. Jesus reveals God to us, NOT the scripture. Scripture reveals Jesus to us. Jesus is the Word of God (Logos) NOT scripture.
Thanks.

And for the underlined above, does that mean Jesus is not God?
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Old 12-13-2023, 11:54 PM
 
63,391 posts, read 39,647,364 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
Thanks.

And for the underlined above, does that mean Jesus is not God?
Our primitive and unsophisticated ancestors struggled to understand the SPIRITUAL truth that Jesus tried to tell them about His relationship to God the Father and they failed miserably. God IS Spirit and they were terrified of Spirits which was part of the problem. Their completely carnal minds also rendered the concept of Spirit (consciousness) as the basis of "personhood" beyond their ken. That is why they rejected as heresy (i.e., modalism, and others) any attempts to resolve the enigma Jesus presented when He said I and the Father are ONE. The result has been the fracturing of Christian dogma and the convoluted and irrational concept of the Trinity to explain Jesus's assertion that He and the Father are distinct entities. They even separated the very essence of God (His Holy Spirit) and proclaimed it to be a separate entity.

The dominance of carnal mindsets and the obsession with physical existence cemented the "carnal milk" of a physical resurrection in the dogma. This rejection of any spiritual interpretations and understanding is the primary cause of the controversy and discord. But God IS Spirit so for Jesus to be identical to the Father He HAS to be Spiri! But Jesus, per se, was HUMAN like us. He BECAME Spirit when His human Spirit was "born again" as the Holy Spirit (Identical to God's). So you tell me if the Spirit that was in physical Jesus IS identical to God's Holy Spirit, is He God or not? If not, what is the difference?
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Old 12-14-2023, 10:40 AM
 
Location: Southwestern, USA, now.
21,020 posts, read 19,195,765 times
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Quote:
...Tell me about Jesus without getting any information or reference from the Bible.
And you should provide your source of information as well - and it better not be something like,”it was revealed to me in a dream” or
“I have a personal connection with God where God, out of 8 billion people, especially chose ME to have a one on one conversation during my hallucination episodes”.
Because this will make God someone who is unfair and not just.

If God speaks to you to make you a believer then he should take turns on all 8 billion people and speak to all - one on one with EVERYONE.
And that will make him fair and just.
A different perspective:
Why wouldn't God come to the one who has sat in stillness and silence with an empty cup preparing a place for Him inside?
Why visit someone who is uninterested in "Him",(Who has no gender).

A guest comes to where he's invited, welcomed...and especially to the house with love and care for him...serving his favorite dish; has his favorite music and chair.
In this case the dish, the enticement is attention, focus on Him and what He loves - silence and sincerity.

Others are fast to call these visits* hallucinations or dreams...when in fact they are more real
than all that your eyes see when they are open.
From my experience....you could reference quantum research, also...nothing you see is what it seems.

*Visits - or when the clouds clear and you see what's revealed above the clouds that has always been there;
another way to put it.--if 'visits' is not relatable.
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Old 12-14-2023, 11:10 AM
 
6,115 posts, read 3,048,228 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Our primitive and unsophisticated ancestors struggled to understand the SPIRITUAL truth that Jesus tried to tell them about His relationship to God the Father and they failed miserably. God IS Spirit and they were terrified of Spirits which was part of the problem. Their completely carnal minds also rendered the concept of Spirit (consciousness) as the basis of "personhood" beyond their ken. That is why they rejected as heresy (i.e., modalism, and others) any attempts to resolve the enigma Jesus presented when He said I and the Father are ONE. The result has been the fracturing of Christian dogma and the convoluted and irrational concept of the Trinity to explain Jesus's assertion that He and the Father are distinct entities. They even separated the very essence of God (His Holy Spirit) and proclaimed it to be a separate entity.

The dominance of carnal mindsets and the obsession with physical existence cemented the "carnal milk" of a physical resurrection in the dogma. This rejection of any spiritual interpretations and understanding is the primary cause of the controversy and discord. But God IS Spirit so for Jesus to be identical to the Father He HAS to be Spiri! But Jesus, per se, was HUMAN like us. He BECAME Spirit when His human Spirit was "born again" as the Holy Spirit (Identical to God's). So you tell me if the Spirit that was in physical Jesus IS identical to God's Holy Spirit, is He God or not? If not, what is the difference?


This actually caught my attention

“Our primitive and unsophisticated ancestors”.

What does this mean?

God’s plan was to not save our ancestors because they were designed not to understand God’s message thru Jesus?

And now, they are potentially in hell for getting astray - what happened to the LOVE that Christian school of thought keeps harping on? No LOVE for our ancestors and early Christians? Isn’t that a pitiful shame?


But more interestingly, 2500 years in the future from now, and people of that era will look back at us and call us immature and not yet fully evolved to understand Jesus’s character and his message. It’s because their interpretation, perception and understanding of Jesus will be TOTALLY different than yours today.

Who will have it right?
Your ancestors, You, or those will look at you as their ancestor?


As you can see the problem, religious theology when put on the path of miscegenation and lies (like Trinity introduced by Paul )are mixed into it - then there is no stopping to it - all are prone to go astray from that point on.
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Old 12-14-2023, 01:28 PM
 
63,391 posts, read 39,647,364 times
Reputation: 7778
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
This actually caught my attention

“Our primitive and unsophisticated ancestors”.

What does this mean?

God’s plan was to not save our ancestors because they were designed not to understand God’s message thru Jesus?

And now, they are potentially in hell for getting astray - what happened to the LOVE that Christian school of thought keeps harping on? No LOVE for our ancestors and early Christians? Isn’t that a pitiful shame?

But more interestingly, 2500 years in the future from now, and people of that era will look back at us and call us immature and not yet fully evolved to understand Jesus’s character and his message. It’s because their interpretation, perception and understanding of Jesus will be TOTALLY different than yours today.

Who will have it right?
Your ancestors, You, or those will look at you as their ancestor?

As you can see the problem, religious theology when put on the path of miscegenation and lies (like Trinity introduced by Paul )are mixed into it - then there is no stopping to it - all are prone to go astray from that point on.
As I said, a true believer in Islam operates from a completely different mindset than mine. I do not see God as Islam presents Him and neither did Jesus. But our ancestors did see God the way you do (as do far too many believers even today) and that is the difference. The God Jesus presented and demonstrated on the Cross put the lie to our ancestors' (and Islam's) beliefs about God. There is no Hell as elaborated by primitive human ignorance, imagination, and superstition. Submission to commands is NOT what God wants from us. God is concerned with what kind of Spirits His children (ALL of us) are BECOMING, NOT how OBEDIENT we are to His commands . . . OR ELSE! Self-serving obedience to laws or commands under threat does not foster agape love of God and each other.

God did not make (or plan) for our ancestors or any of us to misunderstand anything (We do that quite easily on our own). We are responsible for what we do, NOT God's plans or Will. Pretending we can escape responsibility for what we do or what we are BECOMING by believing the right things or being obedient to the right rules is human wishful thinking and stupidity, IMO. If you are BECOMING a scumbag, what you believe or whatever rules you obey will make no difference whatsoever.
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