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Old 12-16-2023, 08:19 AM
Status: "My worldview is based on the inerrant word of God." (set 26 days ago)
 
18,738 posts, read 6,816,262 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Fundamentalists should call themselves "Scriptians" instead of Christians because they follow scripture, NOT Christ, IMO.
And the only think you follow is the image of God you created in your mind and how it coincides with the feelings you get.

I've asked you repeatedly why anyone else should believe what YOU feel and think, but have yet to get an answer.
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Old 12-16-2023, 08:21 AM
 
Location: Northeastern US
19,727 posts, read 13,268,032 times
Reputation: 9713
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn View Post
Well, first -Fault them? Above my pay grade.

All I can say is, (ok, for me, I'll say), if there is something (anything) you really want you don't give up.
I mean unless your faith just simply gives out. I mean you just succumb to failure;
could be a woman, a new red convertible, God, big money dumped into your lap, even a baby.

Say, God is like a beautiful woman - you try everything to get her attention.
I say...if you really want her ---you do different things, figure out what you're doing wrong.
Now, if you think she's not worth it...well then stop trying. Sure.

I'd say the one thing not to stop seeking would be the Big Enchilada...the supreme joy finding God.
Falling for the trick of the mind or lower ego self saying, 'It's too hard or impossible', is often an obstacle to overcome. True.
I mean what is the statistic...1 in 10,000 actually has what it takes to persevere seeking the goal of their choice?
God, financial success, fame, starting a family...whatever.

(A burning desire is a major factor - either you have it or ya don't... imo, that is.)
Nah ... we don't get what we want just because we want it hard enough.

A child might want to be an astronaut but even if Elon Musk manages to get his gravy train to Mars going before he psychologically self-implodes, there will only be so many astronauts and not everyone who would like to be one, will be one. Or for that matter will enjoy it as much as they thought they would, even if they achieve it.

In any case what is wanted on-topic here is god's grace, which is entirely god's to give (or not), it is not a result of human effort or within the scope of human ability. God does not have to be stingy with grace or make you dance for it. Beyond a certain point, waiting on god is just dysfunctional and toxic.
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Old 12-16-2023, 08:21 AM
Status: "My worldview is based on the inerrant word of God." (set 26 days ago)
 
18,738 posts, read 6,816,262 times
Reputation: 3520
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
This actually caught my attention

“Our primitive and unsophisticated ancestors”.

What does this mean?

God’s plan was to not save our ancestors because they were designed not to understand God’s message thru Jesus?

And now, they are potentially in hell for getting astray - what happened to the LOVE that Christian school of thought keeps harping on? No LOVE for our ancestors and early Christians? Isn’t that a pitiful shame?


But more interestingly, 2500 years in the future from now, and people of that era will look back at us and call us immature and not yet fully evolved to understand Jesus’s character and his message. It’s because their interpretation, perception and understanding of Jesus will be TOTALLY different than yours today.

Who will have it right?
Your ancestors, You, or those will look at you as their ancestor?


As you can see the problem, religious theology when put on the path of miscegenation and lies (like Trinity introduced by Paul )are mixed into it - then there is no stopping to it - all are prone to go astray from that point on.
It's just his repeated insults to anyone that disagrees with him. He constantly calls us primitive and barbaric.
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Old 12-16-2023, 08:27 AM
Status: "Without God, life is tragic and absurd." (set 25 days ago)
 
Location: Free State of Texas
20,363 posts, read 12,642,197 times
Reputation: 2470
Quote:
Originally Posted by mordant View Post
Nah ... we don't get what we want just because we want it hard enough.

A child might want to be an astronaut but even if Elon Musk manages to get his gravy train to Mars going before he psychologically self-implodes, there will only be so many astronauts and not everyone who would like to be one, will be one. Or for that matter will enjoy it as much as they thought they would, even if they achieve it.

In any case what is wanted on-topic here is god's grace, which is entirely god's to give (or not), it is not a result of human effort or within the scope of human ability. God does not have to be stingy with grace or make you dance for it. Beyond a certain point, waiting on god is just dysfunctional and toxic.
God’s grace is there for the taking. Why do you complain you weren’t offered any? What are you waiting for? A feeling, a sign?
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Old 12-16-2023, 09:21 AM
 
Location: Elsewhere
87,993 posts, read 83,805,998 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Horn of ‘83 View Post
God’s grace is there for the taking. Why do you complain you weren’t offered any? What are you waiting for? A feeling, a sign?
Fair question. What makes one believe then that they do have God's grace? Other than that you believe the Bible to be true, which I know you do, but as you are aware, so did mordant once, very much so.

So, putting aside for a moment what the Bible says, or maybe more accurately further to what the Bible says, is wanting a sign or a feeling so wrong?

Believers often talk with lit-up faces about the joy they experience from God's grace, about feeling confident knowing that God is with them and always there for them. It certainly does seem as if many of these believers DO feel something or see signs that what they believe is true.

And some of us never get that. No sense of joy, no sense of belonging, no comfort in times of difficultly and sorrow, no sense of God being there. Believing can be an incredibly lonely experience.
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Old 12-16-2023, 09:31 AM
Status: "Without God, life is tragic and absurd." (set 25 days ago)
 
Location: Free State of Texas
20,363 posts, read 12,642,197 times
Reputation: 2470
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801 View Post
Fair question. What makes one believe then that they do have God's grace? Other than that you believe the Bible to be true, which I know you do, but as you are aware, so did mordant once, very much so.

So, putting aside for a moment what the Bible says, or maybe more accurately further to what the Bible says, is wanting a sign or a feeling so wrong?

Believers often talk with lit-up faces about the joy they experience from God's grace, about feeling confident knowing that God is with them and always there for them. It certainly does seem as if many of these believers DO feel something or see signs that what they believe is true.

And some of us never get that. No sense of joy, no sense of belonging, no comfort in times of difficultly and sorrow, no sense of God being there. Believing can be an incredibly lonely experience.
Do you believe God is merciful? Do others you trust believe? Why did those before us believe? It’s not about getting goosebumps-it’s about what is true.
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Old 12-16-2023, 09:36 AM
 
Location: Elsewhere
87,993 posts, read 83,805,998 times
Reputation: 114196
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn View Post
Well, first -Fault them? Above my pay grade.

All I can say is, (ok, for me, I'll say), if there is something (anything) you really want you don't give up.
I mean unless your faith just simply gives out. I mean you just succumb to failure;
could be a woman, a new red convertible, God, big money dumped into your lap, even a baby.

Say, God is like a beautiful woman - you try everything to get her attention.
I say...if you really want her ---you do different things, figure out what you're doing wrong.
Now, if you think she's not worth it...well then stop trying. Sure.

I'd say the one thing not to stop seeking would be the Big Enchilada...the supreme joy finding God.
Falling for the trick of the mind or lower ego self saying, 'It's too hard or impossible', is often an obstacle to overcome. True.

I mean what is the statistic...1 in 10,000 actually has what it takes to persevere seeking the goal of their choice?
God, financial success, fame, starting a family...whatever.

(A burning desire is a major factor - either you have it or ya don't... imo, that is.)
None of this really applies to what I'm talking about. For example, what you are saying, to never stop seeking the "supreme Joy of finding God". I am 65. This joy business has eluded me since infancy (I say since I cannot remember a time in my life when I did not hear of or seek God).

I know you mean well, but frankly, your post above sounds like an able person marching around a disabled person with a big grin saying "Why you can't YOU walk? I can! Look how easy it is! You just have to try harder and not give up."

It seems as if some people are given the key and others are not.
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Old 12-16-2023, 01:23 PM
 
Location: Elsewhere
87,993 posts, read 83,805,998 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn View Post
MQ or mordant might find this of interest by Mirabai:

If we could reach the Lord through immersion in water,
I would have asked to be born a fish in this life.
If we could reach Him through eating nothing but berries and wild nuts,
Then surely the saints would have been monkeys when they came from the womb!
If we could reach him by munching lettuce and dry leaves,
Then the goats would surely go to the Holy One before us!

If the worship of stone statues could bring us all the way,
I would have adored a granite mountain years ago.

Mirabai says: The heat of midnight tears will bring you to God.
Well, no, this is not true, as I certainly have shed way too many of those midnight tears these past two years, and all I seemed to get was either God's raucous laughter over the joke played on us (obviously in my imagination) or silence, but I do have to say that is a beautiful poem. Thank you for sharing.
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Old 12-16-2023, 01:42 PM
 
Location: Northeastern US
19,727 posts, read 13,268,032 times
Reputation: 9713
Quote:
Originally Posted by Horn of ‘83 View Post
Do you believe God is merciful? Do others you trust believe? Why did those before us believe? It’s not about getting goosebumps-it’s about what is true.
Speaking only for myself, I'm not talking about goosebumps. I'm just talking about access to god's mercy and grace in lived experience, at least for the big things. For example, I have a dead wife and a dead son because I/they didn't have that access when it was needed. My family was decimated by various baroque combinations of physical and mental illness, more than once.

All that said, this side of belief, I understand that this business of god prospering the righteous and confounding the wicked was always just a claim and I honestly don't know anyone of any degree of piety or faith who actually has experienced that in any way distinguishable from random happenstance.

My belief began to waver when I truly needed the promises of god to be fulfilled, but after faith collapsed I realized that I was never entitled to such things anyway, and that such things do not exist in the first place. Life is just a series of things happening, not something personal and directed by external forces. And while this is not a thinkable thought to many believers, and assumed to be a quicksand pit of despair if you accept it -- I have actually found it comforting and centering. YMMV.
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Old 12-16-2023, 02:43 PM
 
Location: Southwestern, USA, now.
21,020 posts, read 19,195,765 times
Reputation: 23648
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801 View Post
Well, no, this is not true, as I certainly have shed way too many of those midnight tears these past two years, and all I seemed to get was either God's raucous laughter over the joke played on us (obviously in my imagination) or silence, but I do have to say that is a beautiful poem. Thank you for sharing.
I know, at first read I didn't agree either with Mirabai.
Until I saw on the 2nd read her tears were only for 'Him'.
Not for anything else.

My experience has been this: When I deeply yearned for God, (not a sign, not some money for bills),
but for Him and/or His Divine Love,
that was the key, (that we all have), the sincere desire for Him,( Who has no gender...)

Why do I have that desire?
Because I reached a point of suffering where I said ...''That's it. Enough."
My opinion, and maybe this is not a fact - is like every soul, every master, teacher, enlightened one, yogi -
has to reach a point on their Path where they say, "NO MORE." (To this transitory, painful world.)

When that happens
and they only turn to and rely on their Creator, (by any name) ---the entire Dance changes.
As if the doors to the Magic Kingdom have been opened...the proverbial knock on The Door.

So before that happens, it all sounds like La-la Land, Fantasy, aka nonsense, pipe-dream...I know.
It's kind of how we were made...so many obstacles - and mostly in our own minds.
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