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Old 12-16-2023, 06:41 PM
 
8,167 posts, read 6,918,994 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801 View Post
Of course not. What a ridiculous thing to say.

But I did expect comfort, encouragement, some sort of response to cries to the God I believed in for help and relief when the painful times in THIS life came because I was taught to expect that was a characteristic of God's mercy, not just "but it will be GREAT when you are dead".

Have you never experienced grief? The utter darkness of feeling absolutely alone in the world? Fear of losing a child? If so, you are fortunate.

Those things are not erased or healed by hearing that one's sins are forgiven. Or by being scolded for expressing one's sorrows by condescending believers.
I'm so sorry. As someone who spent a few years finding it therapeutic to cuss out God in pretty horrible ways for the prolonged terrible things that a loved one had to go through and what I thought was some sort of horrible joke, "everything is going to be ok" and then just all hell unleashed, I can fully relate to your previous posts. I turned my back on this God who turned His back on me and my loved ones. Washed my hands of it and turned away. It didn't end there, and over a decade later something turned me back towards God. My story isn't really important right now, but just wanted you to know that I understand what you're saying. From the depths of my soul. And I am very aggravated at the callous way you were just treated after posting what you posted. Not even sure why I'm posting this. Maybe because if you were in front of me right now, I'd just run over and give you a socially awkward hug or something.
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Old 12-16-2023, 07:22 PM
 
Location: Free State of Texas
20,438 posts, read 12,777,841 times
Reputation: 2497
Quote:
Originally Posted by mordant View Post
Remind me never to ask you for empathy, comfort or support in time of need.

Who ever said they were demanding zero troubles? How dumb do you think we are?
So what were you expecting out of Christianity?
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Old 12-16-2023, 07:23 PM
 
Location: Free State of Texas
20,438 posts, read 12,777,841 times
Reputation: 2497
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801 View Post
Of course not. What a ridiculous thing to say.

But I did expect comfort, encouragement, some sort of response to cries to the God I believed in for help and relief when the painful times in THIS life came because I was taught to expect that was a characteristic of God's mercy, not just "but it will be GREAT when you are dead".

Have you never experienced grief? The utter darkness of feeling absolutely alone in the world? Fear of losing a child? If so, you are fortunate.

Those things are not erased or healed by hearing that one's sins are forgiven. Or by being scolded for expressing one's sorrows by condescending believers.
No one gave you those things?
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Old 12-16-2023, 07:43 PM
 
63,785 posts, read 40,047,381 times
Reputation: 7868
Quote:
Originally Posted by mordant View Post
Remind me never to ask you for empathy, comfort or support in time of need.

Who ever said they were demanding zero troubles? How dumb do you think we are?
The leaders in Christianity have irresponsibly raised expectations of God in their attempt to elevate God to a status they consider necessary for God to BE God (all the Omnis). By retaining our ancestors' primitive beliefs and worldly (carnal-minded) expectations of God instead of discerning the spiritual content of scripture as we were told to do, they have done a terrible and irresponsible disservice to God and their congregations, IMO.
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Old 12-16-2023, 08:36 PM
 
Location: Free State of Texas
20,438 posts, read 12,777,841 times
Reputation: 2497
Quote:
Originally Posted by .sparrow. View Post
I'm so sorry. As someone who spent a few years finding it therapeutic to cuss out God in pretty horrible ways for the prolonged terrible things that a loved one had to go through and what I thought was some sort of horrible joke, "everything is going to be ok" and then just all hell unleashed, I can fully relate to your previous posts. I turned my back on this God who turned His back on me and my loved ones. Washed my hands of it and turned away. It didn't end there, and over a decade later something turned me back towards God. My story isn't really important right now, but just wanted you to know that I understand what you're saying. From the depths of my soul. And I am very aggravated at the callous way you were just treated after posting what you posted. Not even sure why I'm posting this. Maybe because if you were in front of me right now, I'd just run over and give you a socially awkward hug or something.
Why did you turn back to God? Did He change or did you?
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Old 12-16-2023, 09:07 PM
 
Location: Northeastern US
19,960 posts, read 13,455,445 times
Reputation: 9911
Quote:
Originally Posted by Horn of ‘83 View Post
So what were you expecting out of Christianity?
To live up to its own value propositions.

More to the point -- since Christians are people and people are weak and feckless anyway -- I expected God to live up to his own billing.

* A refuge, a present help in time of need
* A friend that sticks closer than a brother
* A protector and strong fortress, a shield and defender who keeps you safe
* One who answers the cry of the afflicted
* The Comforter

Just for starters.

But you don't have to make excuses for god or reinterpret and conditionalize the plain meaning of those passages or cast aspersions on my worthiness. I have solved the problem. And it's not really even about any of my problems or sorrows anymore, that was only the impetus to make me re-evaluate my beliefs and cast those beliefs off that manifestly were not valid.
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Old 12-16-2023, 09:15 PM
 
Location: Free State of Texas
20,438 posts, read 12,777,841 times
Reputation: 2497
Quote:
Originally Posted by mordant View Post
To live up to its own value propositions.

More to the point -- since Christians are people and people are weak and feckless anyway -- I expected God to live up to his own billing.

* A refuge, a present help in time of need
* A friend that sticks closer than a brother
* A protector and strong fortress, a shield and defender who keeps you safe
* One who answers the cry of the afflicted
* The Comforter

Just for starters.

But you don't have to make excuses for god or reinterpret and conditionalize the plain meaning of those passages or cast aspersions on my worthiness. I have solved the problem. And it's not really even about any of my problems or sorrows anymore, that was only the impetus to make me re-evaluate my beliefs and cast those beliefs off that manifestly were not valid.
I contend God was all those things to you. You just didn’t recognize it. If I remember correctly, you belonged to a local church. Did you experience any of those things through your fellow Christians? I assume you also studied God’s written word regularly. Did you not receive comfort through the word?
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Old 12-16-2023, 09:26 PM
 
Location: Northeastern US
19,960 posts, read 13,455,445 times
Reputation: 9911
Quote:
Originally Posted by Horn of ‘83 View Post
I contend God was all those things to you. You just didn’t recognize it. If I remember correctly, you belonged to a local church. Did you experience any of those things through your fellow Christians? I assume you also studied God’s written word regularly. Did you not receive comfort through the word?
Yes I was maximally earnest and diligent and regular and so on ... for all the good it did me. Spent an academic year at a Bible Institute to get everything right, too.

The more I studied the more cognitive dissonance I experienced due to the disconnect between the promises and lived experiences; and the more people like you gaslit me about how I was doing it wrong, the more it amplified the problem.

Quit while you're behind. Or not. It's all the same to me, but you're not accomplishing what you think you are. Quite the opposite. Maybe work on empathy .. the ability to imagine and resonate with someone else's experience as if it was happening to you, rather than trying to get them to conform to your expectations or doctrines and make you comfortable in your preconceptions.
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Old 12-16-2023, 09:40 PM
 
Location: Free State of Texas
20,438 posts, read 12,777,841 times
Reputation: 2497
Quote:
Originally Posted by mordant View Post
Yes I was maximally earnest and diligent and regular and so on ... for all the good it did me. Spent an academic year at a Bible Institute to get everything right, too.

The more I studied the more cognitive dissonance I experienced due to the disconnect between the promises and lived experiences; and the more people like you gaslit me about how I was doing it wrong, the more it amplified the problem.

Quit while you're behind. Or not. It's all the same to me, but you're not accomplishing what you think you are. Quite the opposite. Maybe work on empathy .. the ability to imagine and resonate with someone else's experience as if it was happening to you, rather than trying to get them to conform to your expectations or doctrines and make you comfortable in your preconceptions.
You didn’t answer my questions. Did your fellow Christians help and comfort you in times of trouble, as they were told to do by Jesus? Did you not believe God when He said He loved and cared for you, to the degree of knowing the very numbers of hairs on your head?
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Old 12-16-2023, 09:47 PM
 
Location: Northeastern US
19,960 posts, read 13,455,445 times
Reputation: 9911
Quote:
Originally Posted by Horn of ‘83 View Post
You didn’t answer my questions. Did your fellow Christians help and comfort you in times of trouble, as they were told to do by Jesus? Did you not believe God when He said He loved and cared for you, to the degree of knowing the very numbers of hairs on your head?
You are just cherry picking now.

Of course I believed all the promises, including the one that said god cares for me, and knows that I have 1,437,229 hairs on my head ... oops ... 1,437,228, just found one on my sleeve here.

You are reducing god's caring and love to an abstraction, or as we used to call it "positional truth". Caring is shown by being reliable, constant, dependable, and involved in the ways you commit to ... so it's great that god is so fascinated with me that he knows how many hairs I have but there are about a thousand other lavish commitments he made, too. Like the ones I listed.

And this speaks to "it's a relationship, not a religion", as was our mantra. Relationships are two-way. I repent and worship and study and he protects and provides and comforts.

Sure one path of comfort would be through others. I got a bit of that, some of it even from fellow Christians. Although in the main after awhile Christians get tired of your suffering and just want you to get over it already, it gets in the way of their triumphalism. Just like my story and MQ's is getting in the way of your triumphalism.

This also begs the question, if god comforts us through others then how would we even know that god is involved? MQ is coming at this more from a feeling angle, she does not FEEL god's presence or love or care. I was more willing to have to "go by faith", whatever ... I'm a dude and socialized to not feel much anyway ... but gosh all I wanted was to EXPERIENCE his loving care.
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