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Old 12-19-2023, 01:07 PM
 
Location: Northeastern US
20,037 posts, read 13,507,614 times
Reputation: 9954

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavenese View Post
Yes, according to my understanding. He showed His love by sending Jesus to restore our lost relationship with Him. Care and love are action words, and still today Jesus has the holes in his hands, feet, and pierced side as reminders of what He did. Some might say why didn't the Father come Himself and die on the cross? Well, certainly dying for those you love is the ultimate show of care. Yet how many of you love an individual so much, that you would give your children to die for them? The Father loved us that much!

Jesus wanted us restored no doubt, He Himself loves us. Yet He prayed about it , seeing if there was another way to accomplish the task. He ultimately did what the Father wished. Jesus taking the sin of the world and dying, that was what the Father wanted.
Jesus died for 3 days but the end result according to the legend is he was resurrected and now has the best job in heaven next to the almighty himself. He did not give up anything at all in the end. He just slummed it for 33 years.

So I do get a bit weary of all this hagiography about Jesus' sacrifice when it would only be a sacrifice from a purely human perspective, where one really gives up one's life or at least freedom for all time in order to free others. Jesus did not have to do that.

 
Old 12-19-2023, 01:15 PM
 
6,115 posts, read 3,094,167 times
Reputation: 2410
Quote:
Originally Posted by mordant View Post
Jesus died for 3 days but the end result according to the legend is he was resurrected and now has the best job in heaven next to the almighty himself. He did not give up anything at all in the end. He just slummed it for 33 years.

So I do get a bit weary of all this hagiography about Jesus' sacrifice when it would only be a sacrifice from a purely human perspective, where one really gives up one's life or at least freedom for all time in order to free others. Jesus did not have to do that.
Agreed.

Lies do not stand the test of time.
 
Old 12-19-2023, 05:19 PM
 
2,782 posts, read 2,677,659 times
Reputation: 262
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Diogenes View Post
The Gospel of Barnabas, a 15th century AD fake! Are you THAT desperate for evidence?
The Gospel of Jesus is only one Gospel but there are 4 why

does one of them have missing events and the other one added
do all they have common identical events
are they all integrated

this link has a book analysis the Bible for serious readers and knowledge and truth seeking
https://ia803001.us.archive.org/25/i...zharul-Haq.pdf

IZHAR-UL-HAQ
The Truth Revealed
By
Maulana M. Rahmatullah Kairanvi

it has 4 parts

Part 1
The Books of the Bible
Part 2
Contradictions and Errors in the Biblical Text
Part 3
Distortion and Abrogation in the Bible
The Trinity Refuted
Part 4
Proof of the Divine Origin of the Qur’an and
the Authenticity of the Hadiths

Last edited by truth_teller; 12-19-2023 at 05:32 PM..
 
Old 12-20-2023, 06:43 AM
 
2,782 posts, read 2,677,659 times
Reputation: 262
Quote:
Originally Posted by MMWILSON View Post
Does God really care about us?
When My servants ask thee concerning Me
I am indeed close (to them)
I listen to the prayer of every suppliant when he calleth on Me
Let them also, with a will, Listen to My call
and believe in Me
That they may walk in the right way.
 
Old 12-20-2023, 07:51 AM
 
2,440 posts, read 1,454,021 times
Reputation: 481
Quote:
Originally Posted by mordant View Post
Jesus died for 3 days but the end result according to the legend is he was resurrected and now has the best job in heaven next to the almighty himself. He did not give up anything at all in the end. He just slummed it for 33 years.

So I do get a bit weary of all this hagiography about Jesus' sacrifice when it would only be a sacrifice from a purely human perspective, where one really gives up one's life or at least freedom for all time in order to free others. Jesus did not have to do that.

Jesus could have sinned in those 33 years, and been just like us. Jesus had free will as well and nothing was guaranteed. Then on the cross, He had to endure not just the physical pain, but the weight of everyone who ever lived, all their pain, all their disappointments, all their depression, and anguish, He bore it all. That is why it is said there was darkness over the land for three hours. If it is indeed the best job in heaven, He earned it.
 
Old 12-20-2023, 09:17 AM
 
Location: Seattle, WA
9,829 posts, read 7,272,203 times
Reputation: 7795
Quote:
Originally Posted by YorktownGal View Post
Wow, Merry Christmas - all you fools for believing in the divine birth of Jesus and religion?

Passive-aggressive enough for you?
Because I celebrate our modern Saturnalia festival/solstice/pagan ritual holiday that Constantine forced the Christianization of? Somebody renamed it Christmas, so therefore atheists aren’t allowed to celebrate a holiday that predates those bolted-on myths?

I hope that’s not the critical thinking ability you apply to the rest of your life.
 
Old 12-20-2023, 09:22 AM
 
Location: Oklahoma
17,815 posts, read 13,719,426 times
Reputation: 17854
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavenese View Post
Jesus could have sinned in those 33 years, and been just like us. Jesus had free will as well and nothing was guaranteed. Then on the cross, He had to endure not just the physical pain, but the weight of everyone who ever lived, all their pain, all their disappointments, all their depression, and anguish, He bore it all. That is why it is said there was darkness over the land for three hours. If it is indeed the best job in heaven, He earned it.
I've always wondered what that actually means. It sounds touching and all... but what does it mean. What does "the price of all the sin of humanity" do to a guy who is already being crucified. Does it make the pain of crucifixion hurt worse? Does it cause a giant headache? It obviously does something or people wouldn't keep bringing it up.
 
Old 12-20-2023, 09:42 AM
 
2,440 posts, read 1,454,021 times
Reputation: 481
Quote:
Originally Posted by eddie gein View Post
I've always wondered what that actually means. It sounds touching and all... but what does it mean. What does "the price of all the sin of humanity" do to a guy who is already being crucified. Does it make the pain of crucifixion hurt worse? Does it cause a giant headache? It obviously does something or people wouldn't keep bringing it up.

I perhaps couldn't explain it. Yet if we see it in one way, looking at ourselves, I'm sure we all have regrets. Particularly if we done something or didn't do something that ended up causing pain, the emotions we had over them were extremely heavy. Jesus would have felt that for everyone who ever lived and will live. He also bore our pains and sicknesses, and the turmoil they caused. He bore crimes of humanity (rape, murder, adultery), and the turmoil they caused. That is how I picture it.
 
Old 12-20-2023, 12:12 PM
 
Location: Seattle, WA
9,829 posts, read 7,272,203 times
Reputation: 7795
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavenese View Post
I perhaps couldn't explain it. Yet if we see it in one way, looking at ourselves, I'm sure we all have regrets. Particularly if we done something or didn't do something that ended up causing pain, the emotions we had over them were extremely heavy. Jesus would have felt that for everyone who ever lived and will live. He also bore our pains and sicknesses, and the turmoil they caused. He bore crimes of humanity (rape, murder, adultery), and the turmoil they caused. That is how I picture it.
So as humans hopefully continue to survive and evolve (into some future form of our species, probably integrated into our future technology), Jesus felt all the negative anything of any kind, that will ever be felt by anyone? Even the unrecognizable people a million or a hundred million or even a billion years from now, who have probably never even heard of Christianity, as just one ancient dead religion out of thousands of those?

Also they will probably all be Chinese atheists that speak some future version of Chinese, etc. Some middle eastern Jewish guy they’ve never heard of who lived a million years ago, is their savior and the reason for their existence, yada yada?
 
Old 12-20-2023, 12:34 PM
 
2,782 posts, read 2,677,659 times
Reputation: 262
any one who didn't get the message will be treated accordingly

Whoever goes right, then he goes right only for the benefit of his ownself.
And whoever goes astray, then he goes astray to his own loss.
No one laden with burdens can bear another's burden.
And We never punish until We have sent a Messenger (to give warning).
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