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Old 12-23-2023, 06:35 AM
 
2,435 posts, read 1,452,676 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Diogenes View Post
You are just repeating your claim without addressing the logic. If your god is the law of identity, then it can not have created it, and therefore your god did not create everything.
If He is identity, that's just who He is. It would be like saying He didn't create Himself.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Diogenes View Post
Except science is not presuming things, you are. Saying a god did it is not an explanation, it is an assertion.

The assumption is things having arisen over time by processes. There's a limit to our observation because if there is evidence that is no longer observable, you will come to the wrong conclusion. (Just as I mentioned with the star light problem concerning galaxies 100 billion years from now)

Yet if we do throw in Yahweh, that changes the spectrum. If He is involved with the universe, and created it, then the age of the universe can't truly be known. We see the universe expanding, and just run the tape back to where everything was gathered together. How do we know the tape runs back that far? Though again, I don't want to get off topic with this thought. If someone want to start a new thread discussing these things, we can talk there.


Quote:
Originally Posted by primaltech View Post
You appear to understand nothing about any of the things you are saying.

Science is the systematic endeavor of how we gain and organize knowledge, via directly observing, predicting, and testing. It involves empirical evidence, experimentation, and peer review.

The explanations we get from this endeavor, are the things that we can actually observe and test and accurately predict.

Do you understand how carbon dating works? There is no evidence that humans as we know them lived anywhere near alongside dinosaurs. All the evidence we have, including DNA, backs this up as fact. The dinos lived millions of years before any humans were around.

Early forms of mammals may have co-existed with dinosaurs before their mass extinction, which would be our ancient ancestors, but nothing at all like humans.

You just asserting as fact random crap you want to believe, without any evidence, is not a better explanation than observation and evidence.

Well I would say if we found a living dinosaur today, would that change the observational history at all? I argue it wouldn't of course, only that the living dinosaur would prove humans have in fact coexisted with dinosaurs. They would be considered a living fossil.

 
Old 12-23-2023, 06:50 AM
 
Location: West Virginia
16,682 posts, read 15,688,422 times
Reputation: 10931
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavenese View Post
If He is identity, that's just who He is. It would be like saying He didn't create Himself.





The assumption is things having arisen over time by processes. There's a limit to our observation because if there is evidence that is no longer observable, you will come to the wrong conclusion. (Just as I mentioned with the star light problem concerning galaxies 100 billion years from now)

Yet if we do throw in Yahweh, that changes the spectrum. If He is involved with the universe, and created it, then the age of the universe can't truly be known. We see the universe expanding, and just run the tape back to where everything was gathered together. How do we know the tape runs back that far? Though again, I don't want to get off topic with this thought. If someone want to start a new thread discussing these things, we can talk there.





Well I would say if we found a living dinosaur today, would that change the observational history at all? I argue it wouldn't of course, only that the living dinosaur would prove humans have in fact coexisted with dinosaurs. They would be considered a living fossil.
First, that's not how the age of the Universe is determined.



Here's a simple question for you. It's so simple that it needs a simple YES or NO answer.

Question: Do you think humans and dinosaurs have ever been alive at the same time?
YES or NO
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Old 12-23-2023, 06:59 AM
 
2,435 posts, read 1,452,676 times
Reputation: 481
Quote:
Originally Posted by mensaguy View Post
First, that's not how the age of the Universe is determined.



Here's a simple question for you. It's so simple that it needs a simple YES or NO answer.

Question: Do you think humans and dinosaurs have ever been alive at the same time?
YES or NO

Yes, according to Scripture.
 
Old 12-23-2023, 07:17 AM
 
2,782 posts, read 2,675,145 times
Reputation: 262
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavenese View Post
Yes, according to Scripture.
I think the humans and dinosaurs that have lived at the same time are not us
but creatures looked like us

we came from Adam and Eve and Adam is only about 6000 years more less
 
Old 12-23-2023, 07:34 AM
 
Location: West Virginia
16,682 posts, read 15,688,422 times
Reputation: 10931
Quote:
Originally Posted by mensaguy View Post
First, that's not how the age of the Universe is determined.



Here's a simple question for you. It's so simple that it needs a simple YES or NO answer.

Question: Do you think humans and dinosaurs have ever been alive at the same time?
YES or NO
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavenese View Post
Yes, according to Scripture.
The results of your Mensa Qualification Test will be sent to you in 6 to 8 weeks.
__________________
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Old 12-23-2023, 08:20 AM
 
Location: Germany
16,798 posts, read 4,996,217 times
Reputation: 2121
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavenese View Post
If He is identity, that's just who He is. It would be like saying He didn't create Himself.
But do you understand the problem, that the law of identity means a god can not have made everything?

If a god is identity, then that property is eternal, infinite. If a god made the law of identity, then there was a time when that law did not exist.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavenese View Post
The assumption is things having arisen over time by processes. There's a limit to our observation because if there is evidence that is no longer observable, you will come to the wrong conclusion. (Just as I mentioned with the star light problem concerning galaxies 100 billion years from now)
Except we do observe how complexity grows from simple processes, from chemical reactions to playing poker.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavenese View Post
Yet if we do throw in Yahweh, that changes the spectrum. If He is involved with the universe, and created it, then the age of the universe can't truly be known. We see the universe expanding, and just run the tape back to where everything was gathered together. How do we know the tape runs back that far?
Or any god. But that then raises the question why a god would do this extra thing and create an existence that already looks old?
 
Old 12-23-2023, 08:29 AM
 
Location: Oklahoma
17,815 posts, read 13,713,201 times
Reputation: 17851
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavenese View Post
Yes, according to Scripture.
So I guess according to scripture... Dinosaurs "missed the boat"... literally.
 
Old 12-23-2023, 08:34 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,867 posts, read 24,371,727 times
Reputation: 32989
Quote:
Originally Posted by primaltech View Post
You appear to understand nothing about any of the things you are saying.

Science is the systematic endeavor of how we gain and organize knowledge, via directly observing, predicting, and testing. It involves empirical evidence, experimentation, and peer review.

The explanations we get from this endeavor, are the things that we can actually observe and test and accurately predict.

Do you understand how carbon dating works? There is no evidence that humans as we know them lived anywhere near alongside dinosaurs. All the evidence we have, including DNA, backs this up as fact. The dinos lived millions of years before any humans were around.

Early forms of mammals may have co-existed with dinosaurs before their mass extinction, which would be our ancient ancestors, but nothing at all like humans.

You just asserting as fact random crap you want to believe, without any evidence, is not a better explanation than observation and evidence.
Well stated.
 
Old 12-23-2023, 09:08 AM
 
7,369 posts, read 4,149,677 times
Reputation: 16835
Quote:
Some Christians believe that the Earth is about 6,000 years old. This outlook is largely due to James Ussher (1581-1656), the Anglican Archbishop of Ireland.

The vital clue is a London publisher, James Guy, who combined Usher’s dates (1656) with his version of the King James Bible, published about 1675. This became the official version of the Anglican Church in 1701. In this version, the year dates as BC were printed at the top of each page. These year dates were deleted in Bibles after 1900.

How did Archbishop Ussher determine that the Earth was created about 6,000 years ago? In Matthew, the genealogy of Jesus is divided into three parts: I. From Abram to David. II. From Solomon to Babylonian exile III. From Babylonian exile to the birth of Christ. Key dates include: the flood (1656 AC = After Creation), Abram’s birth (2008 AC),
https://www.times-news.com/opinion/i...20about%201675.

The two worse results from 16th century Protestantism are the End Times/Rapture and the 6,000 year old earth.

You got to wonder why these sudden revelations in the 16th century completely unconnected to the first 15 centuries of Christianity.

Last edited by YorktownGal; 12-23-2023 at 09:17 AM..
 
Old 12-23-2023, 10:48 AM
 
29,552 posts, read 9,737,716 times
Reputation: 3473
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
No. Just no.
In another thread you seemed to be suggesting that what you read in this forum doesn't make you scratch your head. This thread a classic case in point that has me exiting stage left as quickly as I arrived, while the effort on the part of some of you to "reconcile" some of these issues has me scratching my head more than just a bit too. Almost as if you think you can accomplish something by way of those efforts. With reason, logic and facts?

You will need to try something else. That's for sure, and good luck with all that!

I still have more than a few more questions I'd like to ask God and although this thread might be as good a conduit as any, so far I'm thinking probably not...
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