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Old 01-02-2024, 05:37 AM
 
Location: U.S.A.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavenese View Post
So with this thread, I'll attempt to answer any questions you have for me concerning what I know of Yahweh. If you ask a question I don't know the answer to, I will let you know up front and may give a guess. .

My question is this, for anyone who can help me to understand:



If the Jewish "Messiah" of the Torah is the "Anti-Christ" of the Christian Bible, will there be a battle between Christians and Jews? Or are the Christians just supposed to keep their blind allegiance to Israel no matter what?

 
Old 01-02-2024, 06:05 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D217 View Post
My question is this, for anyone who can help me to understand:



If the Jewish "Messiah" of the Torah is the "Anti-Christ" of the Christian Bible, will there be a battle between Christians and Jews? Or are the Christians just supposed to keep their blind allegiance to Israel no matter what?

Who we believe will eventually be the Anti-Christ, Israel won't recognize him as the Messiah. We believe the Anti-Christ will claim to be either God Himself or a god, and on that basis alone will cause Israel to reject him.
 
Old 01-02-2024, 09:09 AM
 
7,348 posts, read 4,134,790 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D217 View Post
My question is this, for anyone who can help me to understand:

If the Jewish "Messiah" of the Torah is the "Anti-Christ" of the Christian Bible, will there be a battle between Christians and Jews? Or are the Christians just supposed to keep their blind allegiance to Israel no matter what?
Well, it's happening how. If the Jewish Messiah of the Torah is the "Anti-Christ" of Christians (if this is true). - Then, at this very minute - Christians are actively supporting the creation of the Anti-Christ!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavenese View Post
Who we believe will eventually be the Anti-Christ, Israel won't recognize him as the Messiah. We believe the Anti-Christ will claim to be either God Himself or a god, and on that basis alone will cause Israel to reject him.
Israel is the Jewish people or the state of Israel?

You've pretty much given a description of Jesus as the anti-Christ. Jesus claimed to be God. The Jewish people and the state of Israel do not recognize Jesus as the Messiah.

Been there, done that.
 
Old 01-02-2024, 09:27 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YorktownGal View Post

Israel is the Jewish people or the state of Israel?

You've pretty much given a description of Jesus as the anti-Christ. Jesus claimed to be God. The Jewish people and the state of Israel do not recognize Jesus as the Messiah.

Been there, done that.

Most of the people in Israel are probably secular in thought, but still hold to their traditions. Of course right now there is no physical temple, but if they rebuild it, it would give the people a sense of their heritage. For the same reasons Israel back then rejected Jesus, they will reject the Anti-Christ when he claims to be something. When Jesus comes back, at that time it is said Israel will receive Jesus as Messiah.
 
Old 01-02-2024, 09:59 AM
 
29,551 posts, read 9,720,681 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavenese View Post
Most of the people in Israel are probably secular in thought, but still hold to their traditions. Of course right now there is no physical temple, but if they rebuild it, it would give the people a sense of their heritage. For the same reasons Israel back then rejected Jesus, they will reject the Anti-Christ when he claims to be something. When Jesus comes back, at that time it is said Israel will receive Jesus as Messiah.
"Most of the people in Israel are probably secular in thought?

Wow Heavenese, you continue to demonstrate a real lack of understanding about what you wish to comment about. "Due to the massive role of religion in government and politics, Israel cannot be considered a secular state in the common sense of the word." -- Wikipedia

When it comes to secular countries, Israel is hardly a good example of one. The opposite in fact, because "of the people in Israel." I am more than a little surprised anyone doesn't know this. I'm inclined to suggest you stop digging that hole you are making for yourself...
 
Old 01-02-2024, 10:08 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LearnMe View Post
"Most of the people in Israel are probably secular in thought?

Wow Heavenese, you continue to demonstrate a real lack of understanding about what you wish to comment about. "Due to the massive role of religion in government and politics, Israel cannot be considered a secular state in the common sense of the word." -- Wikipedia

When it comes to secular countries, Israel is hardly a good example of one. The opposite in fact, because "of the people in Israel." I am more than a little surprised anyone doesn't know this. I'm inclined to suggest you stop digging that hole you are making for yourself...

I'm sorry. I heard most of the people of Israel today are secular. (Of course secular could mean different things.) Being Jewish of course incorporates both religion and culture. So I may have heard wrong. Yet its interesting that is what is said at all if most do hold to Torah. I might be getting the American Jewish population confused with the people of Israel.
 
Old 01-02-2024, 10:17 AM
 
29,551 posts, read 9,720,681 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavenese View Post
I'm sorry. I heard most of the people of Israel today are secular. (Of course secular could mean different things.) Being Jewish of course incorporates both religion and culture. So I may have heard wrong. Yet its interesting that is what is said at all if most do hold to Torah. I might be getting the American Jewish population confused with the people of Israel.
You "heard?"

I continue to wonder from where you get all your notions, but I should probably leave you be, because I don't mean to ruin your fun. I just have a bad habit of pointing out when people make claims as if true when really they are not. Certainly not beyond question anyway. A bit of the skepticism in me that lots of believers don't much appreciate as a rule. For obvious reasons.

As you were while I sign off now to get onto other more productive endeavors today. Cheers!
 
Old 01-02-2024, 10:24 AM
 
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Well, according to Wiki , most of the people consider themselves to be "secular", but still hold to the traditions of Judaism. Those who view themselves as religious, are a smaller percent....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Israel


The secular part is what I heard in the past. As for who I heard it from, tv shows and news outlets primarily.
 
Old 01-02-2024, 10:35 AM
 
29,551 posts, read 9,720,681 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavenese View Post
Well, according to Wiki , most of the people consider themselves to be "secular", but still hold to the traditions of Judaism. Those who view themselves as religious, are a smaller percent....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Israel

The secular part is what I heard in the past. As for who I heard it from, tv shows and news outlets primarily.
You're doing it again...

From your own link! "As of 1999, 65% of Israeli Jews believed in God,[15] and 85% participated in a Passover seder. A survey conducted in 2009 showed that 80% of Israeli Jews believed in God, with 46% of them self-reporting as secular."

Earlier you commented "I heard most of the people of Israel today are secular."

46% is not "most of the people" far as I understand the word "most."

I give up as I can see you don't...
 
Old 01-02-2024, 10:52 AM
 
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According to the first section it states:

Quote:
A Gallup survey in 2015 determined that 65% of Israelis say they are either "not religious" or "convinced atheists", while 30% say they are "religious". Israel is in the middle of the international religiosity scale, between Thailand, the world's most religious country, and China, the least religious.[14]

Also according to the graph to the right, it shows most are cultural Jews. (Hiloni חִלּוֹנִי) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiloni And of course all of this is Wikipedia, so we have to take it with a grain of salt. I haven't done any deep research myself. Of course all in all, I don't see the problem with all I've said fundamentally. I certainly don't reject it if most of the people of Israel were die hard observers of Torah.

(2015 is a little more updated than 1999)
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