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Old 12-18-2023, 09:52 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,777 posts, read 24,289,888 times
Reputation: 32918

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Quote:
Originally Posted by FordBronco1967 View Post
Are you trying to convince me that I'm wrong or are you trying to convince yourself that I'm wrong?

Your responses don't speak of someone who spent their career in education...
Ah, another christian who likes to insult people who disagree with him. But frankly, the bolded...that's -- again -- that christian ego speaking.
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Old 12-18-2023, 09:54 AM
 
Location: The Piedmont of North Carolina
6,015 posts, read 2,838,772 times
Reputation: 7628
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
Ah, another christian who likes to insult people who disagree with him. But frankly, the bolded...that's -- again -- that christian ego speaking.
That's not an insult. That's a question, and you know that.
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Old 12-18-2023, 10:02 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,777 posts, read 24,289,888 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FordBronco1967 View Post
That's not an insult. That's a question, and you know that.
I stand by my two statements.
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Old 12-18-2023, 10:11 AM
 
Location: Oklahoma
17,785 posts, read 13,677,875 times
Reputation: 17813
Quote:
Originally Posted by FordBronco1967 View Post
Are you trying to convince me that I'm wrong or are you trying to convince yourself that I'm wrong?

Your responses don't speak of someone who spent their career in education...
You aren't "wrong" in the sense that you have your own "lived" experience albeit a relatively short one to be on here arguing with old coots like us.

But what is fascinating about people like yourself to people like me is that we are able to see how this thing (Christian superstition) perpetuates itself.

You were born around the turn of the century. You came into the world and were taught the same stuff that we were taught when we came into the world a half a century before you.

Many of us believed the same things you believe. But over time it became clear to us that things weren't on the up and up regarding what we had been taught.

Rather than go through the whole litany of those things... I'd prefer to just use the second coming of Christ as an example.

Fifty years ago many of us were told that the second coming was going to be in the '80s. Hal Lindsey pretty much guaranteed it. Didn't happen. Then we were told it was surely going to be around Y2K. Didn't happen. Instead of Jesus coming... you and your cohort were born. About the time you were around ten or so, we had Harold Camping and the Mayan Calendar promising us it was over.

Now in 2023, we are still hearing the exact same stuff we heard when we were kids about the rapture, signs, prophecy...and so on. Heck, we got ranchers trying to breed red heifers in order to speed this whole process up in order to get Jesus back. And of course, we have another in a long line of Israeli/Arab "conflicts" that surely means "the end"...

For those of us that are getting up there in years. It has become clear that Jesus ain't returning "in our lifetimes" despite the fact we heard it all our lives.

And now your generation is hearing that Jesus is going to return in yours.

I suggest you consider that there is a greater possibility that you (hopefully) will die an old man around the turn of the next century as opposed to getting raptured... as to whether you are telling your kids and grandkids at that time that "Jesus is coming during their lifetime" is up to you.
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Old 12-18-2023, 10:26 AM
 
Location: The Piedmont of North Carolina
6,015 posts, read 2,838,772 times
Reputation: 7628
Quote:
Originally Posted by eddie gein View Post
You aren't "wrong" in the sense that you have your own "lived" experience albeit a relatively short one to be on here arguing with old coots like us.
I don't argue. I discuss. Arguing leads nowhere. But, discussion requires at least two willing people, which I haven't really found in this particular thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eddie gein
But what is fascinating about people like yourself to people like me is that we are able to see how this thing (Christian superstition) perpetuates itself.

You were born around the turn of the century. You came into the world and were taught the same stuff that we were taught when we came into the world a half a century before you.
I wasn't taught anything about the Church. While I attended preschool at a church, we never attended church growing up. We were mostly areligious, though we were all baptized as Presbyterians.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eddie gein
Many of us believed the same things you believe. But over time it became clear to us that things weren't on the up and up regarding what we had been taught.

Rather than go through the whole litany of those things... I'd prefer to just use the second coming of Christ as an example.

Fifty years ago many of us were told that the second coming was going to be in the '80s. Hal Lindsey pretty much guaranteed it. Didn't happen. Then we were told it was surely going to be around Y2K. Didn't happen. Instead of Jesus coming... you and your cohort were born. About the time you were around ten or so, we had Harold Camping and the Mayan Calendar promising us it was over.

Now in 2023, we are still hearing the exact same stuff we heard when we were kids about the rapture, signs, prophecy...and so on. Heck, we got ranchers trying to breed red heifers in order to speed this whole process up in order to get Jesus back. And of course, we have another in a long line of Israeli/Arab "conflicts" that surely means "the end"...

For those of us that are getting up there in years. It has become clear that Jesus ain't returning "in our lifetimes" despite the fact we heard it all our lives.

And now your generation is hearing that Jesus is going to return in yours.
I've never had anyone tell me that Jesus was going to return in my lifetime, though I've only ever attended one church service in my adult life.

But, I treat the idea of his return as a possibility, not a fact.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eddie gein
I suggest you consider that there is a greater possibility that you (hopefully) will die an old man around the turn of the next century as opposed to getting raptured... as to whether you are telling your kids and grandkids at that time that "Jesus is coming during their lifetime" is up to you.
As I said upthread, my belief in the Christian God stems from "experiences" I've had, of which I later found out are described exactly as they occurred to me in the Bible. I haven't read roughly ninety-five percent of the Bible. In the grand scheme of things, where the Bible is concerned, I know very little. But my belief has nothing to do with a possible return of Jesus. There is far more to Christianity than that.
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Old 12-18-2023, 10:31 AM
 
Location: 'greater' Buffalo, NY
5,471 posts, read 3,916,864 times
Reputation: 7459
Quote:
Originally Posted by .sparrow. View Post
Well, some (not all) atheists are quite religious in their views as well, and also fall under the category of "The most egotistical, clueless, hypocritical people". Some of the most hardcore atheists should pair up with some of the most fundamental religious people and go bowling. They'd probably get along pretty well.

It's why I like agnostics. Open minded but suspicious:

If you come to a belief, and view the world and life through that one lens and you then proceed to throw the other lenses on the floor and crush them under your heel, then you're not really doing yourself any favors. Keep the other lenses around and look through them every now and again. With additional mind thoughts and life experiences, you may end up seeing something you didn't see before. This goes for the atheist, the religious, whatever. Agnostics keep the lenses around, it seems. It either bolsters what you currently believe, or helps you shed some things and takes you into different directions you hadn't thought of before.
Atheists can be egotistical and/or clueless, but it's difficult for an atheist to be hypocritical, in that no pretensions to virtue are inherent to atheism. The (hypothetical) hypocrisy of an atheist is independent of atheism, whereas the hypocrisy of a religious believer derives from the commitment to upholding the ethical standards their given sect claims to stand for. Although the Bible condones much barbarism, modern-day religions generally at least pay lip service to nonviolence and potentially even pacifism (Islam excepted)
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Old 12-18-2023, 10:43 AM
 
8,168 posts, read 6,921,471 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Marcinkiewicz View Post
Atheists can be egotistical and/or clueless, but it's difficult for an atheist to be hypocritical, in that no pretensions to virtue are inherent to atheism. The (hypothetical) hypocrisy of an atheist is independent of atheism, whereas the hypocrisy of a religious believer derives from the commitment to upholding the ethical standards their given sect claims to stand for. Although the Bible condones much barbarism, modern-day religions generally at least pay lip service to nonviolence and potentially even pacifism (Islam excepted)
Being a hypocrite does not have to do with just religious virtue. It could be about an opinion that they possess. Or a way of life they espouse.
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Old 12-18-2023, 10:43 AM
 
708 posts, read 1,295,568 times
Reputation: 1782
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Marcinkiewicz View Post
The OP talks about there being one god. That is not a profession of atheism; from the post, I gather that s/he's one of those who claim to be 'anti-organized religion'. Reading comprehension is something I wish natural selection had more generously gifted this species.
And your assumption would be WRONG, as most assumptions are. Your morally superior attitude needs to reflect a decent person, but it appears that you are not that. After reading all of the posts on this thread that I started, I am now of the opinion it's not so much religion that I hate, it's more about people that are religious, who are annoying. A few of the posts are okay in my view of things, but most people are just arguing about who is right, who is more right, and who is the most right of them all. Occam's Razor is a theorem that says the simplest. solution is often the most correct. Islam, Christianity, Hinduism, Buddhism, etc., etc., etc., There seems to be no end to the bickering and assumptions coming most from christians that their way of worship is the ONLY way, and then you have so many denominations, it's like a maze that you can't escape from. After I posted that I hate religion, I would have hoped that you compassionate, caring religious people would have simply said that we disagree with you, but we have a different point of view, and have a nice life. But NOOOOO.
Through Past Life Regression, I've experienced things that would blow most of your minds, but since most of you are not open to anything but your religion, it's not hard to see why the entire world is in so much turmoil.

In closing let me state again. I hate religion because it separates people.

Last edited by seethelight; 12-18-2023 at 11:08 AM..
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Old 12-18-2023, 10:51 AM
 
Location: Middle America
11,077 posts, read 7,146,060 times
Reputation: 16984
It's not healthy to "hate" anything. But that tends to be the lowest-level of response often to matters that people don't understand and don't want to understand.

Sure, as with many aspects of life, there are broken elements with groups and institutions, including religions. You could dislike or hate nearly anything if you choose to find negative information and not go beyond that.

Religion is a blessing to many. That includes people who keep their beliefs to themselves, and try to live in peace with others who are different. If one doesn't like it, that's great. Live your freedoms and liberties.

America used to be more about a "glass half-full" outlook, but currently we live in a gripy, complainy, "glass half-empty" yuck mode. But even that is a freedom, so we have to accept it and rise above it.
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Old 12-18-2023, 01:05 PM
 
Location: 'greater' Buffalo, NY
5,471 posts, read 3,916,864 times
Reputation: 7459
Quote:
Originally Posted by seethelight View Post
And your assumption would be WRONG, as most assumptions are. Your morally superior attitude needs to reflect a decent person, but it appears that you are not that. After reading all of the posts on this thread that I started, I am now of the opinion it's not so much religion that I hate, it's more about people that are religious, who are annoying. A few of the posts are okay in my view of things, but most people are just arguing about who is right, who is more right, and who is the most right of them all. Occam's Razor is a theorem that says the simplest. solution is often the most correct. Islam, Christianity, Hinduism, Buddhism, etc., etc., etc., There seems to be no end to the bickering and assumptions coming most from christians that their way of worship is the ONLY way, and then you have so many denominations, it's like a maze that you can't escape from. After I posted that I hate religion, I would have hoped that you compassionate, caring religious people would have simply said that we disagree with you, but we have a different point of view, and have a nice life. But NOOOOO.
Through Past Life Regression, I've experienced things that would blow most of your minds, but since most of you are not open to anything but your religion, it's not hard to see why the entire world is in so much turmoil.

In closing let me state again. I hate religion because it separates people.
I'm an atheist. My 'assumption' was a logical deduction from the content of your post. You tacitly endorse the idea of there being one god since you speak approvingly of there (supposedly) being no debate about on this subject (which is an absurd impression to have, but that's an entirely separate issue).
Your writing leaves a lot to be desired.
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