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Old 12-19-2023, 02:41 PM
 
Location: Wonderland
67,650 posts, read 61,020,365 times
Reputation: 101088

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Horn of ‘83 View Post
Not sure what religion you are, but Christians are instructed to “Go ye therefore…”
I am Roman Catholic.

Here's the full verse, by the way, in the passage where Jesus has returned and is instructing his disciples to tell everyone that He has returned:

Matthew 28: 19-20 "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you, and lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen."

I preach the Gospel always and when necessary, I use words. Don't forget - Jesus is with us always! Often it's best to lead by example.
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Old 12-19-2023, 02:42 PM
 
Location: Wonderland
67,650 posts, read 61,020,365 times
Reputation: 101088
Quote:
Originally Posted by Horn of ‘83 View Post
Not sure what religion you are, but Christians are instructed to “Go ye therefore…”
I clearly said, by the way, that I don't try to ENFORCE others to keep my particular faith.
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Old 12-19-2023, 02:44 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,884 posts, read 24,393,171 times
Reputation: 32990
Quote:
Originally Posted by KathrynAragon View Post
I clearly said, by the way, that I don't try to ENFORCE others to keep my particular faith.
What do you do?
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Old 12-19-2023, 02:46 PM
 
Location: Wonderland
67,650 posts, read 61,020,365 times
Reputation: 101088
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
What do you do?
I lead by example for the most part. If people ask me why I am happy or peaceful or whatever, I share it with them. After that, the ball is in their court.
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Old 12-19-2023, 03:12 PM
 
Location: Free State of Texas
20,443 posts, read 12,805,921 times
Reputation: 2497
Quote:
Originally Posted by KathrynAragon View Post
I am Roman Catholic.

Here's the full verse, by the way, in the passage where Jesus has returned and is instructing his disciples to tell everyone that He has returned:

Matthew 28: 19-20 "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you, and lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen."

I preach the Gospel always and when necessary, I use words. Don't forget - Jesus is with us always! Often it's best to lead by example.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KathrynAragon View Post
I clearly said, by the way, that I don't try to ENFORCE others to keep my particular faith.
Perhaps I misunderstood you. Thank you for clarification.
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Old 12-21-2023, 10:43 AM
 
18,250 posts, read 16,941,651 times
Reputation: 7554
Quote:
Originally Posted by mordant View Post
. Sin is an invented problem and no one needs saving.

I thoroughly agree. There's no such thing as sin. There is right and wrong and the state punishes for certain rights and wrongs if they violate man's laws. But "wrongs" such as adultery are not sins. They're just a product of two adults in a situation that causes them to want to behave in a certain way that may or may not hurt other people. I know of plenty of married couples where one commits adultery and the other spouse isn't hurt at all by knowing it. In fact, the other spouse often encourages it because it relieves them of the burden of having to submit to sex with a partner they feel repulsed by. So in this situation has anyone actually been hurt by this thing the church condemns as abhorrent and worthy of eternal damnation? What tripe.
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Old 12-21-2023, 11:57 AM
 
Location: Northeastern US
20,043 posts, read 13,512,341 times
Reputation: 9956
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
I thoroughly agree. There's no such thing as sin. There is right and wrong and the state punishes for certain rights and wrongs if they violate man's laws. But "wrongs" such as adultery are not sins. They're just a product of two adults in a situation that causes them to want to behave in a certain way that may or may not hurt other people. I know of plenty of married couples where one commits adultery and the other spouse isn't hurt at all by knowing it. In fact, the other spouse often encourages it because it relieves them of the burden of having to submit to sex with a partner they feel repulsed by. So in this situation has anyone actually been hurt by this thing the church condemns as abhorrent and worthy of eternal damnation? What tripe.
For the benefit of any pear clutchers about saying there's "so such thing as sin", I'd qualify that we are not saying there there's no such thing as a harmful act. Every action produces harms or benefits (or more often a mix of both) and ethical decisions hinge on being mindful of that and steering for maximum benefit and minimum harm as much as possible. So we are not talking about a licentious "anything goes" society because actions still have consequences. The distinction, as you point out, is that a thing is only good or bad in context, not because it's on someone's "naughty or nice" list. Some things are nearly always good or bad, others are just more nuanced than that.

Someone on another forum just did a brilliant post for example on divorce. A theist was debating that divorce is "always" wrong or at least was some sort of edge case relative to the legal "no fault" divorces now common. He bemoaned the rise of no fault divorce as harming marriages and "the family" because it makes divorce too easy. In this post, it was pointed out to the believer that marriages stand or fall on love rather than on institutions, that abusive / toxic marriages are what subvert the concept the institution of marriage represents, and that being honest that some marriages can't be redeemed actually preserves the institution, while pretending the essence of marriage is staying together rather than loving and cherishing each other undermines the institution.

This is where believers loose the thread when it comes to what is good or bad in life. They mistake the symbol for the reality. Adultery is a symptom, not a cause. It is a symptom that the marriage is unstable or incomplete in some way, or that at least one of the partners is too immature. You have to address the actual cause or cut your losses. It isn't an issue of "because god says so" or willing it to be lifelong even if the result is in actual fact a ghastly parody of marriage. It's an issue of honoring or not honoring the institution by being real about what is going on and taking rational steps to deal with it.
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Old 12-21-2023, 04:25 PM
 
Location: NSW
3,805 posts, read 3,004,338 times
Reputation: 1376
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
I thoroughly agree. There's no such thing as sin. There is right and wrong and the state punishes for certain rights and wrongs if they violate man's laws. But "wrongs" such as adultery are not sins. They're just a product of two adults in a situation that causes them to want to behave in a certain way that may or may not hurt other people. I know of plenty of married couples where one commits adultery and the other spouse isn't hurt at all by knowing it. In fact, the other spouse often encourages it because it relieves them of the burden of having to submit to sex with a partner they feel repulsed by. So in this situation has anyone actually been hurt by this thing the church condemns as abhorrent and worthy of eternal damnation? What tripe.
Most secular and earthly laws are still based on God’s laws.
Of course things like adultery may be a sin, but are not breaking any state laws. (unless you live in a theocracy - where it could be a capital offence, as are things like blasphemy)
What is right or wrong will vary between people, but also between different jurisdictions.
God’s opinion is the only one that will count in the next life.
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Old 12-21-2023, 04:54 PM
 
63,864 posts, read 40,149,593 times
Reputation: 7882
Quote:
Originally Posted by mordant View Post
For the benefit of any pear clutchers about saying there's "so such thing as sin", I'd qualify that we are not saying there there's no such thing as a harmful act. Every action produces harms or benefits (or more often a mix of both) and ethical decisions hinge on being mindful of that and steering for maximum benefit and minimum harm as much as possible. So we are not talking about a licentious "anything goes" society because actions still have consequences. The distinction, as you point out, is that a thing is only good or bad in context, not because it's on someone's "naughty or nice" list. Some things are nearly always good or bad, others are just more nuanced than that.

Someone on another forum just did a brilliant post for example on divorce. A theist was debating that divorce is "always" wrong or at least was some sort of edge case relative to the legal "no fault" divorces now common. He bemoaned the rise of no fault divorce as harming marriages and "the family" because it makes divorce too easy. In this post, it was pointed out to the believer that marriages stand or fall on love rather than on institutions, that abusive / toxic marriages are what subvert the concept the institution of marriage represents, and that being honest that some marriages can't be redeemed actually preserves the institution, while pretending the essence of marriage is staying together rather than loving and cherishing each other undermines the institution.

This is where believers loose the thread when it comes to what is good or bad in life. They mistake the symbol for the reality. Adultery is a symptom, not a cause. It is a symptom that the marriage is unstable or incomplete in some way, or that at least one of the partners is too immature. You have to address the actual cause or cut your losses. It isn't an issue of "because god says so" or willing it to be lifelong even if the result is in actual fact a ghastly parody of marriage. It's an issue of honoring or not honoring the institution by being real about what is going on and taking rational steps to deal with it.
It is understandable that "sin" came to be associated with offending God in some way, but it is misguided. God cannot be offended or affected in any way by what we do or do not do. God is concerned with what kind of Spirit we are BECOMING and that is entirely resident within our mind and conscious motivations NOT our physical behaviors. That is what Paul alluded to when he said (paraphrasing) nothing is of itself unclean but what a man thinks is unclean is unclean. Sin is entirely a matter of our state of mind. That is why when we are in the states of mind associated with God's Holy Spirit of agape love as Jesus revealed and demonstrated, we can NOT sin!
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Old 12-21-2023, 05:31 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,884 posts, read 24,393,171 times
Reputation: 32990
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derek41 View Post
Most secular and earthly laws are still based on God’s laws.
Of course things like adultery may be a sin, but are not breaking any state laws. (unless you live in a theocracy - where it could be a capital offence, as are things like blasphemy)
What is right or wrong will vary between people, but also between different jurisdictions.
God’s opinion is the only one that will count in the next life.
Not to a Buddhist.
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