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Old 01-06-2024, 09:26 AM
 
Location: Elsewhere
88,625 posts, read 84,875,076 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Horn of ‘83 View Post
Is it possible you are experiencing the peace of God in those settings?
Yes. But not the God described in the Bible, not the God who the authors claim can be called upon through prayer in times of distress and pain and sorrow and when one is in need of help. That God does not respond, at least not to all of us.

Peace found in the natural world, whether you see it as God or not, is available to anyone. There is a connection, a feeling of being a part of a larger whole, that was never available to me in Christianity, where I was always an outsider; never acceptable as I was, never in God's favor. Always alone.

This thread is specifically about prayer. I still acknowledge that the God who tosses you all the spiritual goodies may exist, and that God has the absolute right to do whatever God wants. I will not pray or beg to be heard anymore. It makes no difference in my life if I pray or not. I got the message.
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Old 01-06-2024, 09:47 AM
 
29,552 posts, read 9,737,716 times
Reputation: 3473
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mink57 View Post
I first responded to thrill's post. He posted, "1390 people died in Katrina. If 70% of the nation is Christian, then that's 970 Christians that God let die without helping them.?"

It's as if in thrill's mind, that IF someone says they're Christian, that ALL Christians are alike. They all think the same way, believe the same way... and should get 'help' when calling upon the Lord.

Meanwhile, the Bible doesn't say that. It DOES say that as believers, we WILL go through 'trials'.

God never said, "As long as you're a believer, you'll live FOREVER on this earth, in your human bodies."
We all tend to agree or disagree with one another to one degree or another, and of course we all have our different ways of expressing our opinions. From kind to harsh and all in between, for all our different reasons.

IMHO siting or arguing about these sorts of facts or statistics to explain what the Bible says or means tends to fall apart at some point or another. So why even go there? There are no two people exactly alike and this includes Christians. Consider what so many Christians believe that so many other Christians don't, and what to conclude? At least in part it is fair to conclude the actual facts and truths of these matters don't matter to everyone, and what the actual facts and truths of these matters reveals to us depends on who you ask.

You explain "God never said..." for example. To my knowledge, no one has ever heard God say anything...
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Old 01-06-2024, 09:51 AM
 
29,552 posts, read 9,737,716 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCalAngel2009 View Post
My heart goes out to you Mightyqueen. My prayer is that everyone on this forum, and those who never heard of it, will one day feel the Love of God, which passeth all understanding.

As I've posted, I don't believe much in the bible, but I do believe this verse, which is my favorite:

Romans 5:5 And hope does not put us to shame, because God's Love has been poured out into our hearts through the Holy Spirit, who has been given to us.
A kind sentiment as usual, but my hope is that everyone on this forum, and those who never heard of it, will one day feel good about themselves and their lives without needing to grapple with notions about a god. As good as humanly possible anyway. To be at peace with the reality we all share. As best we are able and/or allowed as we walk our life path. Wherever it may lead...
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Old 01-06-2024, 10:18 AM
 
29,552 posts, read 9,737,716 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801 View Post
I find peace more in natural settings. The woods, by water.
I also hope less people will forever be suggesting to others they are somehow missing something because they don't share a belief in a god. Of course they may mean well and of course they are also free to believe whatever they wish, but I don't think people who are forever suggesting this sort of thing make it easy for a lot of people to simply find peace or comfort in the way they should be able. Without the nagging concern they are actually missing something...

It's really pretty easy to find peace (as you seem able) without being told there is something missing or something wrong with how they are going about life. Simply because they don't believe in a god like they do. It's something like telling someone they have a short-coming or condition that harms them in some way. After repeating this sort of thing to that someone for so long, if they are not able to convince themselves there is nothing there to worry about, they are likely to be left with an unsettled feeling that prevents them from feeling as well as they should or could. For no good reason.

Maybe something like a doctor giving you a medicine that doesn't seem to work. At all, but no one can say why. Never occurs to anyone (including the patient) that maybe there is nothing wrong with them in the first place, and no matter how well they feel, the "doctor" is forever telling them there is something wrong with them anyway. Something's not right.

Or maybe to "put the shoe on the other foot," more people should try explaining to believers how much better their lives would be if they only had the ability to free themselves from the yoke of religion and beliefs in deities. If only they could see the light that way, but for some reason they just can't...
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Old 01-06-2024, 10:27 AM
 
Location: Northeastern US
20,033 posts, read 13,501,689 times
Reputation: 9954
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mink57 View Post
... the Bible ... DOES say that as believers, we WILL go through 'trials'.

God never said, "As long as you're a believer, you'll live FOREVER on this earth, in your human bodies."
It's a good thing no one here is expecting or demanding to live forever on this earth. Even the most ardent fundamentalist does not claim this. Atheists most certainly understand and even embrace their mortality.

It's also a good thing no one here is suggesting there will be no speed bumps. It is more just reconciling the larger speed bumps with the larger promises ... explicit and lavish and quite often unconditional promises to believers of protection, answered prayer, comfort, and a sense of god's loving care rather than life being inconsistent with god's love and consistent with an indifferent universe.

Do not bear false witness by mischaracterizing what people are actually saying or the violated expectations they actually describe.

Last edited by mordant; 01-06-2024 at 10:41 AM..
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Old 01-06-2024, 10:30 AM
 
Location: Free State of Texas
20,443 posts, read 12,801,153 times
Reputation: 2497
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801 View Post
Yes. But not the God described in the Bible, not the God who the authors claim can be called upon through prayer in times of distress and pain and sorrow and when one is in need of help. That God does not respond, at least not to all of us.

Peace found in the natural world, whether you see it as God or not, is available to anyone. There is a connection, a feeling of being a part of a larger whole, that was never available to me in Christianity, where I was always an outsider; never acceptable as I was, never in God's favor. Always alone.

This thread is specifically about prayer. I still acknowledge that the God who tosses you all the spiritual goodies may exist, and that God has the absolute right to do whatever God wants. I will not pray or beg to be heard anymore. It makes no difference in my life if I pray or not. I got the message.
Spiritual goodies? Your life is no different from mine.
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Old 01-06-2024, 11:16 AM
 
4,640 posts, read 1,795,410 times
Reputation: 6428
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801 View Post
For 65 years?

Just another iteration of "it's your own fault".
MQ, I don't think that what compwiz is telling you -- that if you don't seem to get answers to your prayers -- that it's "your own fault"... as a criticism...

...as if they're some angry scolding parent, wagging a finger in front of your face while saying, "It's your own dang fault!"

I met the father of an ex-boyfriend once. The father was an atheist. During a rousing 6 hour game of Texas HoldEm on the coffee table, we got into a slight discussion about why he decided that God didn't exist. He said that when he was seven or eight years old he prayed for candy. No candy *appeared* in front of him moments later, so he concluded that there was no God. He went on to say that he went to a birthday party later on that day. Lo and behold, there was candy there. But he concluded that GOD didn't give him candy; the parents who sponsored the party provided candy.

Compwiz said, "For those left in silence, perhaps the answer came to them but they ignored it, missed it, or overlooked it." And since God often works through others, is it possible that the father of the ex did get his prayer answered...but not in the way he expected?
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Old 01-06-2024, 11:23 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,867 posts, read 24,371,727 times
Reputation: 32989
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mink57 View Post
MQ, I don't think that what compwiz is telling you -- that if you don't seem to get answers to your prayers -- that it's "your own fault"... as a criticism...

...as if they're some angry scolding parent, wagging a finger in front of your face while saying, "It's your own dang fault!"

I met the father of an ex-boyfriend once. The father was an atheist. During a rousing 6 hour game of Texas HoldEm on the coffee table, we got into a slight discussion about why he decided that God didn't exist. He said that when he was seven or eight years old he prayed for candy. No candy *appeared* in front of him moments later, so he concluded that there was no God. He went on to say that he went to a birthday party later on that day. Lo and behold, there was candy there. But he concluded that GOD didn't give him candy; the parents who sponsored the party provided candy.

Compwiz said, "For those left in silence, perhaps the answer came to them but they ignored it, missed it, or overlooked it." And since God often works through others, is it possible that the father of the ex did get his prayer answered...but not in the way he expected?
Such a well-developed christian behavior
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Old 01-06-2024, 11:46 AM
 
29,552 posts, read 9,737,716 times
Reputation: 3473
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mink57 View Post
MQ, I don't think that what compwiz is telling you -- that if you don't seem to get answers to your prayers -- that it's "your own fault"... as a criticism...

...as if they're some angry scolding parent, wagging a finger in front of your face while saying, "It's your own dang fault!"

I met the father of an ex-boyfriend once. The father was an atheist. During a rousing 6 hour game of Texas HoldEm on the coffee table, we got into a slight discussion about why he decided that God didn't exist. He said that when he was seven or eight years old he prayed for candy. No candy *appeared* in front of him moments later, so he concluded that there was no God. He went on to say that he went to a birthday party later on that day. Lo and behold, there was candy there. But he concluded that GOD didn't give him candy; the parents who sponsored the party provided candy.

Compwiz said, "For those left in silence, perhaps the answer came to them but they ignored it, missed it, or overlooked it." And since God often works through others, is it possible that the father of the ex did get his prayer answered...but not in the way he expected?
When we open ourselves to accepting this kind of rationale, absolutely anything is possible...
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Old 01-06-2024, 11:54 AM
 
4,640 posts, read 1,795,410 times
Reputation: 6428
Quote:
Originally Posted by mordant View Post
It's a good thing no one here is expecting or demanding to live forever on this earth. Even the most ardent fundamentalist does not claim this. Atheists most certainly understand and even embrace their mortality.
You sure about that? Sure seems that a few expect that if God was God, that God wouldn't let ANYONE 'perish'. That there would be nothing to cause us ANY suffering...including death.

Quote:
It's also a good thing no one here is suggesting there will be no speed bumps. It is more just reconciling the larger speed bumps with the larger promises ... explicit and lavish and quite often unconditional promises to believers of protection, answered prayer, comfort, and a sense of god's loving care rather than life being inconsistent with god's love and consistent with an indifferent universe.
Wait a minute... what's a "speed bump"? Some people go through cancer and remission...and consider the experience to be a 'speed bump.' Others get a hangnail and scream in pain.

You sure it's God who's inconsistent? Or maybe it's us...

Quote:
Do not bear false witness by mischaracterizing what people are actually saying or the violated expectations they actually describe.
It's the expectations that I question. It's not as if I haven't 'suffered' before, Mordant. I've mentioned much of part of my 'story' ad nauseum.

But as many seem to believe, there should be NO 'suffering', IF God is a "good" God.

...which doesn't seem to align with your idea that anyone is suggesting that there will be NO 'speed bumps.'
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