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Old 01-02-2024, 08:22 AM
 
Location: Albuquerque
971 posts, read 531,892 times
Reputation: 2255

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bitey View Post
Cremated remains aren't "garbage," and the moon isn't their back yard.
No, but to the Navajo, dumping human remains so far from where the person lived is disrespectful. And because of most U.S. people's attitudes about the dead being of no consequence that is what the perception is by putting cremains on the moon. The Navajo have different beliefs about the dead than eurocentric people do.

 
Old 01-02-2024, 08:24 AM
 
Location: Albuquerque
971 posts, read 531,892 times
Reputation: 2255
Quote:
Originally Posted by mordant View Post
Their back yard would be their reservation land or anything else they own. They have no ownership of any heavenly body just because they can see it and incorporate it into their beliefs.

Disrespect ... well I respected my son's wishes and his ashes are under a tree in my back yard, so ... respect is in the eye of the beholder.

Personally I don't think NASA owed them an apology and a promise to consult them in the future the last time this happened but I do think they should have kept their word just the same. But that is a separate question of integrity. Sounds like the apology was just to placate and not sincere, which IMO was worse than no apology at all.

Finally ... if for the sake of argument NASA sent a metric ton of cremains up there and kept it a secret no one would be bothered. It's only that they know about it that it's a problem. Maybe that's a clue as to how important this actually is.

If I were that concerned about the moon-as-sacred-place I would be focusing on preventing the likely strip mining operations that will probably get established there before very long. Or the establishment of settlements that would dot the moon with any sort of light (although it's more likely they would be mainly subsurface structures I suppose). That's way more consequential in real terms than a few ounces of ashes on the lunar regolith.
You misunderstood my back yard comment. Read it again, it was a metaphor referring to an attitude. And when the strip mining on the moon starts you can be sure that more than just one tribe will be protesting.
 
Old 01-02-2024, 08:27 AM
 
Location: Albuquerque
971 posts, read 531,892 times
Reputation: 2255
Quote:
Originally Posted by EnchantedMuggle View Post
Here is an example: do Navajo eat beef? Do you realize how that feels to Hindus? You are literally eating something sacred and then bodily eliminating it.

Does that mean anyone who has eaten beef owe Hindus an apology and must consult with a Hindu in the future before eating beef?
Almost all americans eat beef or have in their life, the old Navajo still eat sheep, they can't afford nor do they want beef. What aboutism is irrelevant.
 
Old 01-02-2024, 08:29 AM
 
Location: Brackenwood
9,971 posts, read 5,667,931 times
Reputation: 22120
Quote:
Originally Posted by DesertRat56 View Post
No, but to the Navajo, dumping human remains so far from where the person lived is disrespectful. And because of most U.S. people's attitudes about the dead being of no consequence that is what the perception is by putting cremains on the moon. The Navajo have different beliefs about the dead than eurocentric people do.
Good for them. They can practice their own beliefs to their heart's content and bugger off about other peoples' beliefs that don't impose on them. Whether I want my remains scattered a mile, a continent, or a light-year away from where I lived is none of their business.
 
Old 01-02-2024, 08:33 AM
 
7,319 posts, read 4,111,948 times
Reputation: 16775
Quote:
Originally Posted by DesertRat56 View Post
I grew up with Navajo and understand a small bit of their beleifs. You are being crass because it is not the ownership of the moon that they are concerned with, it is the descration by dumping human remains on the moon that bothers them. Part of it is the disrespect of the human remains and the other part is the disrespect of a pristine place that is important to their beliefs.
I'm with the Navajo. The thought of sending human remains to the moon sent chills up my spine. There is something so unsettling about it that words can't express my vehement and intense response.

Quote:
Originally Posted by High.priestess.Sarah View Post
We don't own the Moon or the Earth, because we are the Moon and the Earth as well as everything in the cosmos. so is every other race here and yet they have this strange notion they own the air they breathe, the water they drink the food they eat, with paper money they made from trees they don't own! I don't think these people will ever understand, but I hope and pray that one day they will. Love you and thanks for commenting on this subject that means so much to me!
Shoot me now! . I agree with you!
 
Old 01-02-2024, 08:36 AM
 
Location: Albuquerque
971 posts, read 531,892 times
Reputation: 2255
Quote:
Originally Posted by High.priestess.Sarah View Post
Yes sister, I too have Native American Family. I understand Navajo Nation President Buu Nygren concern. It's just so hurtful when people make statements that disregard Mother Earth, and Sister Moon sacredness. It hurts even more because this is not just a Native American thing, this is something all races of people should understand regarding the connection we all have with Nature. Just looking at the comments so far shows the lack of knowledge people have about Native American Tribes. We don't own the Moon or the Earth, because we are the Moon and the Earth as well as everything in the cosmos. so is every other race here and yet they have this strange notion they own the air they breathe, the water they drink the food they eat, with paper money they made from trees they don't own! I don't think these people will ever understand, but I hope and pray that one day they will. Love you and thanks for commenting on this subject that means so much to me!
That's the problem with the western mind, the goal is to force nature to do a human's bidding, and to hell with the consequences, our great grandchildren can deal with those. But now we are the great grandchildren dealing with our ancestors excesses and continueing the same attitude as if it doesn't matter and we have a "god given" right to destroy everything if we want to. I think people will start to change some of their bad habits because of the financial issues (monoplized utility companies charging so much even rich people find it threatening to their well being for one). We are so stupid about the environmental issues we have caused over the last 300 years that we think electric cars are better for the environment than gas/petrol cars are. But no one understands what goes in to making the electornic parts and batterise. Investigate that and then you will realize it is just as destructive to humans and the planet. It is one of the reasons everyone wants to stake out a peice of the moon. Strip mining is the goal to support our insane lifestyles.
 
Old 01-02-2024, 09:20 AM
 
529 posts, read 181,581 times
Reputation: 241
Quote:
Originally Posted by EnchantedMuggle View Post
Where is the disrespect in this act? What money are they charging and to whom?

Am I to understand you only eat meat that you kill yourself, respectfully?
NASA doesn't bother me, private companies charging people let's just say $25,000 to place your loved one on the moon is wrong.

Respectfully speaking, you miss the point, it's not eating meat that we should be ashamed of, its eating anything that is alive including plants and vegetables. Their life, whether it was plant or animal, was sacrificed so you belly can be full.

*** TRANSMASSION ALERT ***

INCOMING INSTELLAR MESSAGE FROM THE ANDROMEDIA GALAXY

Greetings Earthlings, my name is Zartan, and I come from the 100 million planetary system from the Andromedia galaxy called Zartania. We are a peaceful people that have treaties and cooperation with all 10 trillion of our inhabitants Which allowed us to occupy our entire galaxy.

We ran out of room in our galaxy and found your milky way has suitable planets for us to peacefully occupy. I bought your planetary Earth for 1 Zartan dollar because you cattle made your planet nearly worthless with your wars, destruction and exploiatation. That is how I was able to buy your planet which is owned by me now so cheaply.

I will be sending 10 billion of my closest friends on your planet soon to take care of your planet, but don't worry my dear destructive cattle. We will take good care of you. As you have known there have been many probes from our spaceships to see where we can move your entire population to and found a pristine place, we will help you move to. I believe you call this land Antartica, and you will love it there. You really don't have a choice though because I own your planet now and you must follow our rules.

It may not seem fair to you right now, but you are a conquered people since we have more people than you do and have better guns than you do so don't resist us and enjoy your new home in Antarticia. Once you are all safely on your new continent, we will make a treaty with you that as long as the snow is white, and the winds blow you will be safe in your new home. (fine print) unless we find a valuable resource, we can use in Antarticia, you're out of luck.

*** END OF TRANSMISSION ALERT ***

This is the way it was when European settlers came to America and began exploitation and systematic genocide cleansing because the savages were not human enough for them. Also, their ways of blending in with the Earth and living with her as a tribe was not profitable for their way of life. Treaties were made and broken by conquering people that had no mercy for the conquered people that occupied the land before them. The Indians did not own the land, they are part of it, but that concept is foreign to the invaders that believed in monetary worth and ownership of property like Earth is a commodity and not a place to be respected.

We destroyed our planet with our greedy ways, we exploited our natural resources to the point of over consumption that it is nearly exhausted, and it will soon be uninhabitable for anyone to live on. That is why we have to explore other moons, planets that we can conquer and exploit until we exhaust those resources and destroy any inhabitants that occupy their planet that we are soon going to own for 1 Earth dollar. It's a vicious cycle, we are no better than locust whose main purpose in life is to consume an area to oblivion until it is uninhabitable and move on to the next area to destroy as well.

I guess this is why this article bothers me so much. If we took care of our planet, and reached out to other possible civilizations on other planets in peace and explored our solar system with respect, I have no problem with people leaving Earth if they want to, or being buried in other areas if they want to. I'm one of those people that absolutely loves the moon and have many Esbat rituals to honor her company to our Earth. So, I have no problem with people wanting to be buried there as long as its respectful and dignified for the remains and wishes of the deceased last wishes, and it doesn't harm the moon in any way.
 
Old 01-02-2024, 10:33 AM
 
18,976 posts, read 7,001,756 times
Reputation: 3584
Quote:
Originally Posted by king john IV View Post
quote:

Navajo Nation President Buu Nygren recently discovered that NASA is planning to launch a rocket
headed to the moon in early January with cremated human remains to be placed there,
he sent a letter to NASA and the U.S. Department of Transportation asking to delay the launch.


https://news.yahoo.com/navajo-nation...171139638.html
Seems a bit arrogant to suggest anyone needs their permission to go to a place they've never set foot on.
 
Old 01-02-2024, 11:13 AM
 
529 posts, read 181,581 times
Reputation: 241
Quote:
Originally Posted by YorktownGal View Post

Shoot me now! . I agree with you!
Lol, love you Yorktown girl, it's ok to agree and I promise not to tell if you don't tell

I was born on Earth and only ask I be buried on Earth when I'm gone.

By the way if you get a chance listen to this beautiful short song by Joanne Lynn Shenandoah. She was a beautiful soul and was a citizen from the Oneida Indian Nation. Her music is so touching and loving, she was an inspiration to many people that loved the honor she gave to our Indian culture with her sweet melodies.

https://youtu.be/nlIY8DYmK1g?si=wSZ_QgBkgcRzMvG1
 
Old 01-02-2024, 12:56 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,759 posts, read 24,261,465 times
Reputation: 32903
Quote:
Originally Posted by DesertRat56 View Post
No, but to the Navajo, dumping human remains so far from where the person lived is disrespectful. And because of most U.S. people's attitudes about the dead being of no consequence that is what the perception is by putting cremains on the moon. The Navajo have different beliefs about the dead than eurocentric people do.
I really don't care what they think about the moon or other people's remains. And I doubt very much that they will bow to my Buddhist beliefs.
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