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Old 12-31-2023, 06:25 PM
 
1,063 posts, read 904,896 times
Reputation: 2504

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quote:

Navajo Nation President Buu Nygren recently discovered that NASA is planning to launch a rocket
headed to the moon in early January with cremated human remains to be placed there,
he sent a letter to NASA and the U.S. Department of Transportation asking to delay the launch.


https://news.yahoo.com/navajo-nation...171139638.html

 
Old 12-31-2023, 06:33 PM
 
Location: Northeastern US
19,956 posts, read 13,450,937 times
Reputation: 9910
Quote:
Originally Posted by king john IV View Post
quote:

Navajo Nation President Buu Nygren recently discovered that NASA is planning to launch a rocket
headed to the moon in early January with cremated human remains to be placed there,
he sent a letter to NASA and the U.S. Department of Transportation asking to delay the launch.


https://news.yahoo.com/navajo-nation...171139638.html
Well if NASA apologized the last time they did this and promised to consult with native people in the future then they should follow through on that.

On the other hand, by treaty, everything in space belongs to no one and so it is not the same thing as desecrating some holy mountain on a reservation. Where would it end? Somewhere there's got to be a religion that venerates the stars or the heavens ... does that group get to stake a claim every time a jet flies overhead at night or something? If there's no sovereign nation on earth that gets to stake a claim in space, why does a religion get any sort of preference?
 
Old 01-01-2024, 09:55 AM
 
Location: Albuquerque
971 posts, read 531,892 times
Reputation: 2255
Quote:
Originally Posted by EnchantedMuggle View Post
Oh come on, not to be crass but this is just stupid. Native Americans don't own the moon. Technically, nobody does.
I grew up with Navajo and understand a small bit of their beleifs. You are being crass because it is not the ownership of the moon that they are concerned with, it is the descration by dumping human remains on the moon that bothers them. Part of it is the disrespect of the human remains and the other part is the disrespect of a pristine place that is important to their beliefs.

It is like dumping garbage in someone else's back yard attitude that has them upset. They have no problem with exploration and probably not with colonization of the moon.
 
Old 01-01-2024, 10:01 AM
 
Location: Brackenwood
9,971 posts, read 5,667,931 times
Reputation: 22120
Quote:
Originally Posted by DesertRat56 View Post
It is like dumping garbage in someone else's back yard attitude that has them upset. They have no problem with exploration and probably not with colonization of the moon.
Cremated remains aren't "garbage," and the moon isn't their back yard.
 
Old 01-01-2024, 04:30 PM
 
Location: Northeastern US
19,956 posts, read 13,450,937 times
Reputation: 9910
Quote:
Originally Posted by DesertRat56 View Post
I grew up with Navajo and understand a small bit of their beleifs. You are being crass because it is not the ownership of the moon that they are concerned with, it is the descration by dumping human remains on the moon that bothers them. Part of it is the disrespect of the human remains and the other part is the disrespect of a pristine place that is important to their beliefs.

It is like dumping garbage in someone else's back yard attitude that has them upset. They have no problem with exploration and probably not with colonization of the moon.
Their back yard would be their reservation land or anything else they own. They have no ownership of any heavenly body just because they can see it and incorporate it into their beliefs.

Disrespect ... well I respected my son's wishes and his ashes are under a tree in my back yard, so ... respect is in the eye of the beholder.

Personally I don't think NASA owed them an apology and a promise to consult them in the future the last time this happened but I do think they should have kept their word just the same. But that is a separate question of integrity. Sounds like the apology was just to placate and not sincere, which IMO was worse than no apology at all.

Finally ... if for the sake of argument NASA sent a metric ton of cremains up there and kept it a secret no one would be bothered. It's only that they know about it that it's a problem. Maybe that's a clue as to how important this actually is.

If I were that concerned about the moon-as-sacred-place I would be focusing on preventing the likely strip mining operations that will probably get established there before very long. Or the establishment of settlements that would dot the moon with any sort of light (although it's more likely they would be mainly subsurface structures I suppose). That's way more consequential in real terms than a few ounces of ashes on the lunar regolith.
 
Old 01-01-2024, 06:33 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,759 posts, read 24,261,465 times
Reputation: 32903
Quote:
Originally Posted by EnchantedMuggle View Post
Here is an example: do Navajo eat beef? Do you realize how that feels to Hindus? You are literally eating something sacred and then bodily eliminating it.

Does that mean anyone who has eaten beef owe Hindus an apology and must consult with a Hindu in the future before eating beef?
Good analogy, and similar to Muslims not eating pork.
 
Old 01-01-2024, 10:45 PM
 
529 posts, read 181,581 times
Reputation: 241
Quote:
Originally Posted by EnchantedMuggle View Post
Here is an example: do Navajo eat beef? Do you realize how that feels to Hindus? You are literally eating something sacred and then bodily eliminating it.

Does that mean anyone who has eaten beef owe Hindus an apology and must consult with a Hindu in the future before eating beef?
You do not know the legend of the Tracker, it is about a young warrior that was trained by his grandpa to be a mighty warrior hunter for his tribe. Up to his 13 birthday he was not allowed to kill any animals to feed his tribe because it was a sacred right for him to enter into manhood when he came of age. Unlike muggles, his tribe regarded the animals they hunted with the most love and respect they have and asked for forgiveness when any of these beautiful creature's life was lost to feed the tribe.

On his 13th birthday, little tracker was sent out in the forest to find a deer to hunt and kill so that his family can be fed and not starve. For several weeks before his birthday, he tracked a baby deer that was born with a deformed back hind leg that gave it pain whenever it walked. He decided this was the deer he was going to hunt so that this poor innocent and beautiful creature wouldn't have to suffer anymore and it's life can be given to help feed his family.

At first when the deer spotted the boy it was afraid of him, but over time it saw the boy was not a threat and acted as if he wasn't there and even walked right past him without even noticing him. On the faithful day when it was time for him to kill the deer. He prayed to the great Creator to comfort the deer in its last precious few moments of life and when he approached the deer, he killed it.

He did a very bad job, and the deer suffered as it died. It didn't die mercifully or quickly. This whole traumatic experience will forever haunt this poor boy and as he wept, he gently carried the deer to grandpa that was waiting for him along with the other warriors at the camp. The young warrior boy was infuriated! Is this how we treat sacred animals by killing them and glorifying their death! He already made up his mind when he went to camp. When he saw grandpa, he was going to throw the deer at his feet and leave the savage tribe FOREVER!

When he got to camp, he saw grandpa staring at him with a smirk on his face. This enraged the boy that grandpa could be so heartless and not understand a sacred life was thrown away so we could eat it! As the warrior boy rushed up to grandpa, he was startled because his grandfather's smirk turned into sadness, and the thing that grandpa said to him next was something that followed him for life!

"My son, when you can feel as much pain as you had in killing this beautiful animal as you had when killing the grass, you just walked on. You will understand the meaning of life. Grandpa was right, and the little warrior boy finally saw how arrogant his young mind was thinking. All life is sacred and a blade of grass, has the same priceless value and right to live as an animal. In order to live, things must die that is why you respect every living force that is around you. The lesson that grandpa taught is the value of life and why it is so precious, from a blade of grass, to the baby deer, to you, and to me, never take life for granted and don't place one life above another because of our arrogant attitude.
 
Old 01-01-2024, 10:52 PM
 
529 posts, read 181,581 times
Reputation: 241
Quote:
Originally Posted by EnchantedMuggle View Post
Oh come on, not to be crass but this is just stupid. Native Americans don't own the moon. Technically, nobody does.
Nobody owns the Earth either, but most people think they do. To be honest I have Native American blood in me, and it doesn't bother me if people want to have their remains on the moon as long as it is done with respect. If someone is making a profit sending cremated remains to the moon then that would be a great offense to our sister in the sky. The Moon and Earth are not resources for us to exploit, it is part of our very fabric of being that we need to take care of and respect! Mother Earth, Sister Moon, Father Sun is your family, they are my family too! Mortals arrogant attitude in thinking everything is made for us to master, and exploit is the very thing that is going to destroy our humanity.

Tell me, what is the price tag to put ashes on the moon? How much does it cost to go to Heaven? For $19.95 a month you too can enjoy the comforts of Heaven! This is the disrespect I speak of when you place a price tag on a Sacred object, event, or way of life. If you do not understand the movie Avatar, you will never understand what I'm talking about, but my sisters and brothers do. By the way I don't own the moon, I am the moon, the Earth, the Sun, and the entire cosmos. Mortals' digital money and paper God has no value to me and why this is offensive, not only to Native Americans but anyone with a heart.

Please go back and keep looking at the Avatar Movie until you understand it's meaning, otherwise I can't help you understand the meaning of life from an indigenous people's perspective.
 
Old 01-01-2024, 11:13 PM
 
529 posts, read 181,581 times
Reputation: 241
Quote:
Originally Posted by DesertRat56 View Post
I grew up with Navajo and understand a small bit of their beleifs. You are being crass because it is not the ownership of the moon that they are concerned with, it is the descration by dumping human remains on the moon that bothers them. Part of it is the disrespect of the human remains and the other part is the disrespect of a pristine place that is important to their beliefs.

It is like dumping garbage in someone else's back yard attitude that has them upset. They have no problem with exploration and probably not with colonization of the moon.
Yes sister, I too have Native American Family. I understand Navajo Nation President Buu Nygren concern. It's just so hurtful when people make statements that disregard Mother Earth, and Sister Moon sacredness. It hurts even more because this is not just a Native American thing, this is something all races of people should understand regarding the connection we all have with Nature. Just looking at the comments so far shows the lack of knowledge people have about Native American Tribes. We don't own the Moon or the Earth, because we are the Moon and the Earth as well as everything in the cosmos. so is every other race here and yet they have this strange notion they own the air they breathe, the water they drink the food they eat, with paper money they made from trees they don't own! I don't think these people will ever understand, but I hope and pray that one day they will. Love you and thanks for commenting on this subject that means so much to me!
 
Old 01-02-2024, 03:02 AM
 
966 posts, read 512,238 times
Reputation: 2504
I agree w/ DesertRat56. We should be accepting of other people's religious/spiritual beliefs, whether or not we agree w/ them. Having lived in New Mexico many years, I've come to appreciate how much the Native Americans have suffered due to racism, prejudice and intolerance. It doesn't cost anything to honor their values, and perhaps we can learn something from them rather than just rejecting what, truthfully, we know little of.

That's a sign of whether or not someone has any spiritual life at all, whether or not they can honor those who differ from themselves.
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